Shotguns with screw in chokes.... exceed the 20mm so now prohibited????

[mosquito]

Simple question here, not trying to be a smartass but isnt he suppose to measure the barrel diameter after the action, you know, where the shell enters the barrel....

NP... if it wasn't snowing and I was working I wouldn't have been taking much time to look it over but the more I looked the more it became clear that there needs to be a definition in writing.

To sum it up, CBSA says anywhere from the throat to the muzzle, the lawyers from two of the firearms groups measured without the choke tubes in, Epps measured probably 8" before the end of the muzzle... the RCMP POLICY says a 4th option... if they can add more rifles to the list, why haven't they added a definition or specific exclusion? .... and do you TRUST their word? I have seen policies and standards change or even conflicting standards in industry several times, based on their behaviour and the vague definition I simply don't think Blair and Trudeau and that bunch are trustworthy at all and won't change the standard to a different "expert" one.

The shotgun by Epps shown is probably OK based on the RCMP, based on the CBSA it is prohibited, based on the lawyers it is OK .... do you trust the Liberal's not to have the RCMP change their standard to "match the CBSA to avoid confusion" etc. at some future date?


They can keep bringing up the RCMP POLICY... but that doesn't make it LAW... and like Justlied Trudeau said about groping the reporter... he just saw it different ... but in a court and before a judge... do you want an opinion, a policy or a legal definition? When you read about something like the Milgram experiment or the methodology used to train concentration camp guards, then to have a gov't run by an admirer of the Chinese dictatorship, to put faith in people's benevolence and the powers that run things blindly... no thanks.

P.S.
Rather than adding a new post.... READ the RCMP statement with your brain turned ON"
1) "it does not include chokes" - that is how the lawyers measured it, without the choke.
2) "The interior dimensions of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." - The choke was removed for the lawyers and Epps just proved that 12guage was .81" and therefore prohibited.

Both 1 and 2 point to some 12guage and probably 10 gauge being prohibited depending on the interpretation by the judge or police on WHERE to measure and HOW to measure the barrel bore. The RCMP have one standard, the CBSA another, the lawyers using the legal safe zone picked the maximum point with the choke excluded (removed) from the barrel. They have added more firearms to the list but no definition and no exclusion for shotguns... think about that.

[trimmer21]

Could this thread get any more ridiculous? Like Dad used to say "Boys,boys,boys,enough already,get the hell outside and play,will ya....NOW".

[Snowwalker]

Simple question here, not trying to be a smartass but isnt he suppose to measure the barrel diameter after the action, you know, where the shell enters the barrel....

Would not matter. If the bore exceeds 20 mm at and point it exceeds 20 mm.

The bore diameter will be of a uniform diameter the length of the barrel.

[blasted_saber]

Issued late last night by the RCMP. The bottom paragrph to me says that they are using a standard and NOT your actual shotguns meaurement.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firear...and-devices?re

Important notice: Update on 10 and 12 gauge shotgun classification under the new prohibition
On May 1st, 2020, the Government of Canada announced that it had made amendments to the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted (SOR/98-462) [Classification Regulations] prescribing certain firearms as prohibited. One of the categories of the newly prohibited firearms include "Any firearm with a bore diameter of 20 mm or greater" (s. 95 of the Classification Regulations).

The Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) of the RCMP adheres to the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners' (AFTE) definition for bore diameter measurements. "The interior dimensions of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." (Glossary of the Association of Firearm & Tool Mark Examiners by the AFTE Standardization Committee, 1st Ed. 1980). This is reflected in the RCMP's Firearms Reference Table (FRT) which clearly states that "...in shotguns, diameter of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." The CFP also recognizes the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) standards regarding firearms and ammunition. The SAAMI chamber specifications for 10ga and 12ga shotguns do not include chokes therefore indicating that chokes are not part of the bore. Accordingly, it is the CFP's view that, in accordance with acceptable firearms industry standards for shotguns, the bore diameter measurement is considered to be at a point after the chamber, but before the choke.

Further, in making classification assessments of firearms which are reflected in the FRT, the CFP relies on recognized industry standard measurements. With respect to 10ga and 12ga shotguns, the CFP recognizes the SAAMI standard specifications which establish that the nominal (i.e. standard) bore diameter measurements for 10ga and 12ga shotguns are below the 20mm threshold (19.69mm for 10ga, 18.42mm for 12ga).

[MikePal]

Issued late last night by the RCMP. The bottom paragrph to me says that they are using a standard and NOT your actual shotguns meaurement.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firear...and-devices?re

Important notice: Update on 10 and 12 gauge shotgun classification under the new prohibition
On May 1st, 2020, the Government of Canada announced that it had made amendments to the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted (SOR/98-462) [Classification Regulations] prescribing certain firearms as prohibited. One of the categories of the newly prohibited firearms include "Any firearm with a bore diameter of 20 mm or greater" (s. 95 of the Classification Regulations).

The Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) of the RCMP adheres to the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners' (AFTE) definition for bore diameter measurements. "The interior dimensions of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." (Glossary of the Association of Firearm & Tool Mark Examiners by the AFTE Standardization Committee, 1st Ed. 1980). This is reflected in the RCMP's Firearms Reference Table (FRT) which clearly states that "...in shotguns, diameter of the barrel forward of the chamber but before the choke." The CFP also recognizes the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) standards regarding firearms and ammunition. The SAAMI chamber specifications for 10ga and 12ga shotguns do not include chokes therefore indicating that chokes are not part of the bore. Accordingly, it is the CFP's view that, in accordance with acceptable firearms industry standards for shotguns, the bore diameter measurement is considered to be at a point after the chamber, but before the choke.

Further, in making classification assessments of firearms which are reflected in the FRT, the CFP relies on recognized industry standard measurements. With respect to 10ga and 12ga shotguns, the CFP recognizes the SAAMI standard specifications which establish that the nominal (i.e. standard) bore diameter measurements for 10ga and 12ga shotguns are below the 20mm threshold (19.69mm for 10ga, 18.42mm for 12ga).

Yea..posted way back on #136...

[fratri]

I am guessing Blair and the rest of the Lib Government are loving this distraction...... lots of energy focusing on shotguns and not so much on the guns actually banned....

[Badenoch]

For those that want to trust an opinion or policy and not have it in writing...
.... as an example, from Ellwood Epps ...
"Bore Diameter of Iver Johnson 12ga 2 3/4", measuring at 20.777mm"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGpz-2aBYk

I posted about this video "proof" in post 141.

Let's look at that Epps video a little closer.

The Epps measurements were .692" at the choke and .818" at the bore's widest point for a .13" difference. The standard constriction of a 12 gauge full choke is .030" while the tightest turkey choke I could find is .060" meaning the choke on the Epps shotgun is over twice the constriction of the tightest choke on the market.

The question it raises for me is how long the Epps gunsmith spent reaming that barrel. A .818" bore is larger than a 10 gauge and is closer to an 8 gauge. Yeah, sure it came from the factory that way.

It's no different than if Epps had called the RCMP and said, "We have a Ruger 10/22 that has been modified to shoot full auto. Is it prohibited?"

But if any of the hysterics are losing their poo because they own a 12 gauge I'd be happy to help. Please PM me and I'll take that scary gun off your hands.

[blasted_saber]

I am guessing Blair and the rest of the Lib Government are loving this distraction...... lots of energy focusing on shotguns and not so much on the guns actually banned....

I doubt it. Its made them look like even bigger idiots.

[fratri]

I doubt it. Its made them look like even bigger idiots.

Not to the general public....I think this is turning out to be a good thing for them...

[gbk]

I am guessing Blair and the rest of the Lib Government are loving this distraction...... lots of energy focusing on shotguns and not so much on the guns actually banned....

X2-it is so convenient panic,it raises a question-is it by accident.....or