some people are idiots

[jaycee]

This all shows everyone that "The Lunatics are Running the Asylum " .

[skypilot]

This all shows everyone that "The Lunatics are Running the Asylum " .

The embarrassing part is the lunatics that voted for the lunatics to run the asylum(if you can find one to admit it)

Last I checked (on combined cycle units) Nat gas is only about 50% efficient for power generation. Single cycle is worse at around 35% efficiency.

Coal is around 40% IIRC but I don't remember if that included all energy used getting it to the Plant.

[JBen]

Too tired and trying to put old habits into their proper place to crunch the numbers Mosquito.

62% of homes province wide
the GTA accounts for 50% of the popultion
ottawa maybe another 10%

so the vast majority of those heated by nat gas are in those two areas. I assume you know the electoral map? The vast majority. In other wordss strip (or Nuke) the GTA and Ottawa and were likely looking at a very small percentage of the province on Nat Gas.

the howls and cries will see this stopped cold and or Ms Wynne booted. Hell the cries over 2 gas plants and 5 seats.......

i wouldn't get me knickers in a knot. Personally hope they try.

[Rugger]

No problem, you are right there have been some upgrades, the latest about 3 years ago but I remember there was several planned expansions that were killed.
There is the abandoned plant.
http://www.vanishingpoint.ca/ontario-generating-station

The Niagara Tunnel brings power to Beck 1& 2 but I cannot find much on the planned expansion of the turbines either now. I remember a few years back there was talk of a project that was supposed to double the capacity but the exact cancellation I can't find anymore either. I recall it was $6B in expansion and upgrades (MAYBE... MAYBE as part of the Niagara tunnel???) but.... IF I am right though to put it in perspective, each windmill costs about $3million installed when I looked it up, Ontario is putting in about 6,800 so to be conservative at a bulk install price of $1M that is $6,800,000,000. I can't find the cancellation, maybe it was just a proposal?? but I don't see either at all now so I will blame someone that bought me a molson or labatts and I will now go have a Hockley's Stout and since I can't back the cancelled part up I retract the cancellation part for now.

I didn't even find it here.
http://www.windontario.ca/

But I did find this article of interest.
http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/201...ly-as-designed
Nearly two years after water first started flowing through the new Niagara Tunnel to the Sir Adam Beck generating stations, a Niagara Falls regional councillor says the $1.5-billion project is “not producing anything.”

“Sir Adam Beck 1 is at 20% (capacity), Sir Adam Beck 2 is also less than capacity and our tunnel is at zero … not producing any power,” Reg. Coun. Bart Maves said during a regional council meeting Thursday night.

Ontario Power Generation, however, said the 10.2-kilometre tunnel, which carries water from the upper Niagara River to the generating stations, is “performing exactly as designed.”

Spokesman Neal Kelly said he believes Maves is confusing capacity and energy.

“The tunnel doesn’t add capacity, it provides more water, more fuel, to the stations so it can produce more energy,” Kelly told QMI Agency Niagara on Friday.

“It allows us to produce more energy when the system requires it — when the system operator requires us to … OPG doesn’t control demand, we respond to demand.”

Maves said the generating stations in Niagara Falls have a capacity of about 2,300 megawatts, but they’re only using about 1,200.

“We’re operating our generating facilities way under capacity.”

Maves said he was getting the information from the website, live.gridwatch.ca

“We have such a glut of over supply of energy in the province right now, we don’t need to add more,” said Maves.

“(The Niagara Tunnel project) was necessary, good and useful, but we’re not utilizing it for a number of reasons. We’ve added so much other power. Every time we add more solar and wind, it just reduces what we would use out of our Beck generating stations.”

Maves said Ontario is exporting power, “but we can’t get a good price for it.

“Hydro prices have gone up over 100% in 10 years. We’ve lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs. We’ve pushed them to the U.S. for cheaper power. They’re selling cheap power to our manufacturers from us.”



Right this moment according to gridwatch ALL of Ontario's wind is 1582 Mw (one of the highest numbers I have seen for it) while Sir Adam Beck 1 and 2 are 157 of 453 capacity and 1033 of 1455 capacity and we are exporting (at a loss) 1977 Mw.


http://www.torontosun.com/2015/08/12...ricity-in-june
Electricity exports cost Ontario taxpayers $200 million in June

I couldn't easily find anything past the boring of the new tunnel, I would have expected there to be more noise when it was finished and online. .. almost sounds like the upgrades were done (and paid for) but we're not really using them because we have to be seen to be building a green energy system. Regardless of the fact that what we have already built is not being used even though it is likely cheaper and cleaner. ... That's worse than not upgrading S A Beck and spending elsewhere. ...