Blame Harper!

[Nismo]

Nismo,

I am 11 years older than you are and I don't know if you would call me "more experience in life" than you are but I have to say a few things about your generalizations (insights).

Firstly, no one in Canada has ever been forced to take on debt when going to school. When I was choosing a post secondary route for schooling, I went to college because I didn't want to be saddled with debt or put my family into hard times. I had the marks to go study engineering and/or the sciences in university but I decided to take Electro-mechanical Engineering Technology from Sir Sandford Fleming College. I worked my way through school just as you did and I also saved on money by living at home and driving into school. I didn't go out every night to the various pub nights like some of my college associates did. The result is I had zero debt coming out of school. I sacrificed on a lot of experiences because I didn't want to have an anchor around my neck when I graduated because I knew my first job out of school wasn't going to be paying me 70K/year. Perhaps the "younger generation" should make better decisions when it comes to their post-secondary education and finances.

Secondly, people aren't retiring because they are mortgaged with 500K houses. They aren't retiring because people live longer. In 1980, the average life expectancy was 75.08. In 2012, it was 81.24 years. Those extra six years aren't free. People look towards their retirement years as a time to relax, be pampered and do things they have always wanted to do. That costs money. They have also seen what happens to people who don't have any money (their parents) upon retirement and they would rather choose a different route. As for what younger kids are supposed to do because of this, again no one is forcing you to wait for the older generation's job positions to become vacant. Necessity is the mother of all invention. There are jobs out there if you are willing to lower your standards. When I was laid off last year, I had a heck of time getting a position in my field. I started to talk to tradespeople I know in the hopes of finding an apprenticeship because I needed my bills to be paid. It would have been a huge backwards step in my career (as well as financially) had this opportunity I am at currently wasn't offered but I was willing to sacrifice a lot in order pay the necessities (we had even talked about possibly selling our house and moving back into an apartment because it made better financial sense).

Thridly, fixing a mechanical device isn't any more difficult than it was before. Not too many lawn mowers (two or four stroke) have computers. While automobiles have become more computerized, at the end of the day, they are mechanical devices which can be maintained by the average person. You don't need to monkey around with the computer to change to oil, fix the brakes, lube the bearings, change and universal joint, change the air filter, etc. A lot of young people either don't want to or don't know how to maintain their possessions and rather than learning how to maintain or even fix their possessions, they would much rather pay someone else to do it. Also, if the younger generation bought older cars and knew how to fix them, they wouldn't have to pay outrageous mechanic prices because as you so aptly put it "anyone could fix it". Today, the younger generation wants it's top end toys and they want all of them and they want someone else to look after them for them. Well something has to give because money doesn't grow on trees (believe me I have planted enough money in the ground in hopes that this was false when I was a kid).

Lastly, your housing costs. Yes prices are steep. However, interest rates are nowhere near what previous generations paid. This is economics at it's finest. The law of supply and demand. As for buying a $100K home and having to fix it up, again there is a lot of home improvement the average person can do themselves if they took the time to learn it. The big stuff (structural, major electrical, major plumbing) all need to be done by a professional but minor things (re-shingling a roof, changing an electrical outlet or switch, un-clogging a drain, etc) can be done by the average joe. My wife and I were pre-approved for a significant mortgage when we started looking for houses. However, we took our time and looked for a good deal instead of rushing out to buy the largest house on the block because our philosophy was we only plan to buy one house for the rest of our lives rather than get a starter home, then when the kids start coming something a little bit bigger, then when the kids move out have to reduce our home size.

Younger generations have more disposable income than the generations before it. I have more disposable income than my father did when he was my age and he had more disposable income than my grandfather did at the same age, etc, etc. Also my generation didn't have to grow up through the tough times my father did or my grandfather did. Think finding a job is tough now, try doing it in the 1930's. Think gas prices are expensive now, try it in the 70's where gas price to income was comparable to today and they were having shortages all over the country.

You are right consumer debt isn't a generational thing. However, I think the older generations are less likely to load up on debt than the younger ones because of what they have had to go through (great depression, world war 2, etc) and the fact they are more likely to watch their bottom line because their incomes are fixed or are at a closer ceiling than younger generations.

Dyth

A lot can change in 10 years, kids now are almost paying double the tuition costs I did, I'm sure it's about the same in the decade you and I are apart.

I'm all about making better financial decisions, that why I was debt free, at 21, my only debt is my house, and truck. Now others they did that to themselves are they to blame yes... But they were also given these luxuries growing up and want to provide that for their families, but credit is too easy to get now...

How do you build credit? You need to owe money, that's why I took out a student loan, I didn't get my fist MasterCard until I was 23 with a full time job. But that's how I was raised.

As for people living longer, you are correct, but maybe they should have been saving a lot sooner, or more. My pension at work is amazing but I still put money away every paycheque, you never know...

You missed my point on the lawn mowers but it's ok, kids can't fix anything anymore, throw it out buy new... How are they expected to fix a car if they don't know where to start mechanically, let alone a computer that you need special tools to read. Are kids lazier now? Oh yes, but who was there to help them along the way? It seems no one wants to get their hands dirty and learn something, that is very sad, it's just easier to pay someone!

House renos, people are too busy for that, again they don't want to learn, or were never taught. No one can even hook up a 3 way switch anymore.

Learning how to fix a car or house is one of the best ways to save $1000's, and you have the satisfaction of knowing you fixed it, not some guy who doesn't care. This is the stuff that should be passed on but isn't because parents are too busy, not only teaching kindness, and being humble, it saves kids from being taken advantage of.




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[JBen]

As for people living longer, you are correct, but maybe they should have been saving a lot sooner, or more. My pension at work is amazing but I still put money away every paycheque, you never know...

Ever wondered how different your life would be if you didn't have a pension?

Well lets do some very.....very....broad and loose calculations using median numbers, and some sort of loose approximations and assumptions.

The mean duo income is 75,000 and the average single is 50k.
Estimates suggest people in this area pay roughly 45% to taxes (all in) and 40% to housing, food, clothing.

So lets say johnny q grosses $60,000
After tax disposable income $33,000
After H,F,C disposable income $19,800
Gas/car budget lets call it -$5000

Leaves around $15,000 or $1,500 per month for everything else.
Life insurance and more
Kids have sports or activities?
more?

Oh, don't forget you need to save about 10% per year and pay down debt per year.
*************************

Retirement goal. Rule of thumb is 60%-70% of gross income.
65% of $60,000 = $42,250<<in order to maintain a similar lifestyle
You hope to live 20 to 25 years. So lets use 20 years, and assume it earns 3% per year.
On the day you retire you want, in the bank $628,588.19 (net value)..in order to last 20 years with withdrawals of 42,250/year

Your 30 years old and have say 25 years to save that (freedom 55). How much do you need put away each year?
$17,252

lol, youth.

Now explain please or consider how the average stiff is supposed to do that......and....pay down debt.....and live a little.

And you hope to god along the road of life there are no speed bumps.
Job loss
Car blows up
House roof and furnace blow up
Kids and braces or kids and X
etc
etc

[Dythbringer]

A lot can change in 10 years, kids now are almost paying double the tuition costs I did, I'm sure it's about the same in the decade you and I are apart.

True tuition has increased. I am not denying that. However, kids who are paying the tuition are working for more money. When I was working my full time job thru school, it was at Taco Bell and my starting wage wasn't $11/hour (or whatever they are offering now). So everything is relative. Yes tuition increased but so did the wages kids are making now.

I'm all about making better financial decisions, that why I was debt free, at 21, my only debt is my house, and truck. Now others they did that to themselves are they to blame yes... But they were also given these luxuries growing up and want to provide that for their families, but credit is too easy to get now...

You might be about making better financial decisions but can you say the same about your generation mates? Parents work hard to give their children luxuries but is it the parents fault the kids think those luxuries are necessities? I don't think so. When we were growing up, every so often we had to opportunity to eat at a restaurant. Does this mean I think I should eat out all of the time? Young people need to stop blaming their parents for their shortcomings. You say credit is too easy to get now. I disagree. I think younger generations don't take personal responsibility for their spending on luxuries when they need to live within their means. Again a lack of personal responsibility. If you and I go out to dinner and I order a meal within my budget and you decide to order the fillet mignon with a 03 Bordeau and it is way out of your price range and you put it on credit, who's fault is that? Your parents?


How do you build credit? You need to owe money, that's why I took out a student loan, I didn't get my fist MasterCard until I was 23 with a full time job. But that's how I was raised.

By your own admission, you say credit is too easy to get so why would young people want to build credit if it is the evil entity you claim it is? Again, no body forces any one to live beyond their means. That is a personal choice.

As for people living longer, you are correct, but maybe they should have been saving a lot sooner, or more. My pension at work is amazing but I still put money away every paycheque, you never know...

Maybe they should have saved a lot sooner but they didn't. They now have to rectify their situation. However, they don't owe anything to anyone save their employer. They don't have to step aside because a person from a younger generation needs a job. That isn't how life works.

You missed my point on the lawn mowers but it's ok, kids can't fix anything anymore, throw it out buy new... How are they expected to fix a car if they don't know where to start mechanically, let alone a computer that you need special tools to read. Are kids lazier now? Oh yes, but who was there to help them along the way? It seems no one wants to get their hands dirty and learn something, that is very sad, it's just easier to pay someone!

I don't think I missed your point about lawn mowers. At the end of the day, any possession you have needs to be looked after and if you don't know how or were never taught how, go find out how to. There are lots and lots of ways to learn how to fix any problem (library, you tube, internet, etc). There are self taught people out there who didn't have the resources the younger generation has for knowledge, they used trial and error to learn. I will not accept an argument about younger people not learning because they didn't have anyone to help them along the way. Sorry. In three generations mankind hasn't lost the ability to gain knowledge other than to be pablum fed like an infant.

House renos, people are too busy for that, again they don't want to learn, or were never taught. No one can even hook up a 3 way switch anymore.

If they don't want to learn, I can't help them but someone will charge to do it and they lose money because they don't want to learn or get their hands dirty. No body can help them with that. No body can motivate someone to better themselves if they don't want to do for themselves. But you can't put the blame on someone else because of that lack of motivation. You can't have a lazy person and say he is lazy because his parents didn't push him. That isn't how life works.

Learning how to fix a car or house is one of the best ways to save $1000's, and you have the satisfaction of knowing you fixed it, not some guy who doesn't care. This is the stuff that should be passed on but isn't because parents are too busy, not only teaching kindness, and being humble, it saves kids from being taken advantage of.

You really need to stop completely absolving the younger generation of their shortcomings because their parents didn't teach to change the oil in the car or to operate a drill. There were plenty of things I had to learn on my own without my parents to help me as did others. My parent's responsibility was to create an environment which I could succeed and was safe. I still had to go out and do the work.

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My responses are in red....

[JBen]

Anyone (between the ages of 40-75) else reminded of the days when our parents said.
Well I had to walk to and from school, in the rain and snow, uphill both ways.

Nizmo.
When I grew up. Many families we still single income, so mom was able to stay home, raise the kids, take care of things at home. By the time I was a young parent myself both my Ex and I were up at 5am, out the door by 6am or earlier, not home until 6:30-7:00pm. Dinner, clean up, homework, bath time spend 15 minutes with the kids, get them to sleep.

/crash and wake up again by 5am.
****************

Today. Many of your generation work from home, part time or full time, or have flex hours.

So between us.
Who has more time and energy to fix things around the house or XYZ?

you were saying?

It's only different. Not harder

[Jakezilla]

Nismo, call it what you want but all I see are excuses and trivial first world problems. No one in North America has anything to complain about. I am currently working at sea on a ship and the crew on board is mostly East Indian. For the majority of them I earn their yearly wage in about 3 days and my yearly wage is more than a lifetime of earnings for them. Their contracts to stay on board are regularly 6 months or more, one of the guys in the engine room has been on board for 15 months. As crappy as it sounds, the crew on board are happy to have work and a job. So think about that for a bit before you start talking about how tough it is for the younger generation in the land of opportunity.


Jben nailed it with "It's only different. Not harder"