Food for thought.

[trimmer21]

Key paragraph from the article:

"With each new percentage point of earnings mandated for contribution, the report finds, there was a “substitution effect,” namely a 0.895 per cent drop in voluntary savings. In other words, an additional dollar contributed to the CPP led to a proportionate decrease in the average household’s private savings. If such findings prove consistent with the implementation of this provincial plan, then the entire exercise will be a waste, leading to greater government control over retirement savings than is currently the case."

The whole point of this ORPP is to take $$$ from peoples savings and dump it into Toronto infrastructure. There will be no pension "fund" - just a tax bill for Ontario's future taxpayers.

This is just a fancy of way of saying that the more money the government takes out of us for whatever purpose,the less money we have for our own savings. Gee,who knew? LOL

[Hunter John]

Any one still think this is a good idea ??

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/21...e-pension-plan

[JBen]

Objection!
Nothing the Sun says counts. It's "right wing"

Sustained?
Overruled?

And while I'm at it. Gee is Ms Wynne asking the Feds to help her bail the good ship Ontario and commoners out?...nah, can't possibly fit

[JBen]

Trimmer, on that note.

Does anyone here dispute, that Johnny Q has too much debt AS WELL.

So we have Ms Wynne planning to siphon even more $ out of the peons pockets over and above all the other tax hikes, fees, cost of Hydro, etc.

Less money in the peons pockets to
1) spend and grow the economy
2) save for their own retirements
3) pay off credit cards, mtgs,

Interest rates?

[Waftrudnir]

.... The money IS NOT being saved. It's being spent ...

many governments have done that before. the results have been the same.
the more uncertainty in population growth and taxpayer base you have, the more dooming and uncertain your retirement will be. ever looked at the long term job market (manufacturing industry and dependent industries) and the immigration profile (i.e. people that benefit us and not vice versa) you have going along with it - we all know where we are heading in Ontario!
the only reason to have any retirement plan where the funds are not 100% locked in and are only available to those who contributed, is to prolong incompetent government. the real issue is that it is likely to work out for them for way too long.
you know another tax here and there to keep the cash flow up, until realization sets in that your savings are all gone.

[terrym]

When you add up the Pension Payroll tax, and the coming Carbon tax that will cause inflation on virtually every good and service you consume Wynne will be removing 5-6% of everybody's disposable income. Add in rising Hydro rates and people will see a very real and tangible erosion of living standard. That means the economy will contract and in the end there will be no more money available for retirement. My guess is they will blame Harper.

[rick_iles]

When you add up the Pension Payroll tax, and the coming Carbon tax that will cause inflation on virtually every good and service you consume Wynne will be removing 5-6% of everybody's disposable income. Add in rising Hydro rates and people will see a very real and tangible erosion of living standard. That means the economy will contract and in the end there will be no more money available for retirement. My guess is they will blame Harper.

Naw......its Harris' fault dontcha know !!!!!

[Hunter John]

And the fact that manufacturing jobs are/ have been leaving the province at record numbers it's easy to see why we are doomed .

[JBen]

Not sure how much that will impact us HJ.
While they are projecting that emigration will subside thats only a projection. I don't see thing changing here, neither the economy nor improvements to draw people/jobs. In fact they seem to be getting worse. Aka Taxation, hydro, carbon taxes…Nah, those things won't affect a companies decision to come and invest at all…. lol
Terry you forgot another 2-4% tax grab on her definition of "rich"

However, that said

The components of Ontario population change

In any given year, the contributions of natural increase and net migration to population growth vary. While natural increase trends evolve slowly, net migration can be more variable, mostly due to swings in interprovincial migration and variations in immigration. For example, over the past 10 years, the share of population growth coming from net migration has been as high as 67 per cent in 2003–04 and as low as 51 per cent in 2006–07.
Net migration levels to Ontario have averaged about 79,000 per year in the past decade, with a low of 52,000 in 2006-07 and a high of 98,000 in 2011-12. The number of births and deaths has been rising slowly and at a similar pace. As a result, natural increase has been fairly stable at about 50,000 annually over the last decade.

Over the next five years, net migration is projected to increase significantly as current net losses of population through interprovincial migration subside. Ontario’s annual net migration gain is projected to rise from 82,000 to 96,000 during the first five years of the projection.

Boomers though…………
Will be leaving the workforce. That means a number of things….
Will impact various industries leaving gaps and holes
Means a lot of people will be paying a lot less in taxes and spending a lot less
Means a lot of people will be using various resources and services (aka Healthcare and others)
Spells a lot of trouble for a broke province and peons getting hammered by…
Spells even more trouble for the peons breaking their backs who don't have Penions and can't save.

By 2041, there will be more people in every age group in Ontario compared to 2013, with a sharp increase in the number of seniors. Baby boomers will have swelled the ranks of seniors; children of the baby boom echo generation will be of school-age; and the baby boom echo cohorts, along with a new generation of immigrants, will have bolstered the population aged 15–64.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/...ojections/#s3a

And do note ironically if one looks at the graph how they call it Ontario's age pyramid

I have long felt, that back in the 60s when CPP and more was brought in (Think PET and immigration and taxation levels took off as did the size and cost of Govt) and Boomers were entering the workforce and making decisions that today….

No body foresaw the problems of today. And that includes the Pension Plans of PS/ or simply "total size/cost of govt) and why many of the same things…..

We blame the Liberals and rightfully so
We blame Unions and rightfully so

Maybe the bullseye really belongs on Boomers and cradle to grave policies, dependancy of Boomers and their children who expect………..everyone else to pay for everything…. and pyramid/Ponzi schemes and tax bases (the middle class who statistically its shown…) and are getting pummelled, (Especially here in Ontario) for a top heavy…and aging population with much longer life expectancy and who want life on a silver platter, and not to have to take of themselves.

[Waftrudnir]

...

We blame the Liberals and rightfully so
We blame Unions and rightfully so

Maybe the bullseye really belongs on Boomers and cradle to grave policies, dependancy of Boomers and their children who expect………..everyone else to pay for everything…. and pyramid/Ponzi schemes and tax bases (the middle class who statistically its shown…) and are getting pummelled, (Especially here in Ontario) for a top heavy…and aging population with much longer life expectancy and who want life on a silver platter, and not to have to take of themselves.

so true