Peace in education

[terrym]

It's just a misconception that us " stupid " common folk dream up that, a good honest liberal would ever be in the wrong.

True enough. If they look like they may be wrong they bring in non government party operatives at night and wipe out the hard drives and evidence..........oops I mean they are just doing inbox maintenance and don't know the laws. The cops are working on it though.....honest

[Rugger]

May be older than dirt but it's far younger than generalizations and inductive reasoning and I'm seeing a fair bit of that going on as well But in all honesty hard to have a good discussion with out it

[Fishy Wishy]

I just had a conversation on EQAO standarized testing with a teacher friend and her concerns about EQAO seem valid and genuine.

The EQAO does not have consideration for Learning Difficulties of any kind.
The EQAO has no consideration for ESL students.
Teachers are not allowed to rephrase a question if the child does not understand it as written. (This is a largew part of why teachers teach to the test).
Apparently a die (singular form of the word dice) is too negative a word so a die is referred to as a "number cube" Who calls a die (or dice) number cube(s)?
If you are in an English school the test is in English, French school French test. My daughters in French Immersion (from an English school) get the test in...English (even though their instruction is in French).
Some schools have lots of ESL students, or socio-economic strife, lack of parental involvement (parents who are uneducated themselves or are poor parents) due to zoning. Some just have high instances of LDs.

Kids are not help back/allowed to fail etc. In any classroom/grade there may be a large spread of abilities. I had my Daughter's first principal (when he put her and two other kids, in a split grade class 1/2, when she was in Grade 1) tell me in or interview as I was concerned, that in any grade there is a 4-5 grade year spread in literacy ability. In Grade 2 they had kids reading at an SK level through to a grade 4 level.

My friend complains about this as how can 1 teacher in a classroom be expected to teach to 30 students with such a varying range in ability?

A big complaint is the parents not holding up their part of the "contract". Parents who "don't have time, we're busy" to read for 10-30 minutes a night with their child. Parents that think - That's what I pay you for.

I have been caught saying the same thing...but the context was different when a teacher sent home comments on my daughter's EQAO prep test saying that we (as parents) should work with my daughter on polynomial shapes (or whatever it was). I was like huh? What? This test reflects on you, not my child. AFAIC this test is to guage your ability as a teacher and the quality of this school. (BTW my daughter scored level 4 in all 3 areas of testing - the only one in her school to do so that year.) Since then we have moved her (an now her sister) to another school that offered French Immersion in a grade 4 start, hoping to gain them some more challenges and skills. My oldest was identified as "gifted" with a high IQ, and my youngest is supposed to be tested this year (don't know what the strike will do to that plan). My youngest is said (by teachers who know them both) to have the oldest beat. LOL

Off topic and forgot where I was going. So I'll sign off.

[krakadawn]

This is an excellent thread,but,I would like to make one observation and that's the "Let's blame Mike Harris" left wing mantra. That thing is older than dirt. I just want to say to people that still trot that old chestnut out that you can't maintain any credibilty when you spout dogmatic union BS like that and we know,instantly,that you're simply talking out your a**,so,knock it off.

Give it a break there buddy, nobody is spouting off union dogma in fact I'm not even supportive of the teacher union(ETFO) as an example. You're the one talking out various body parts....how about just trying to make a comment without being derogatory in nature.

So I choose to not knock it off, why don't you take a break or articulate your view in a better way instead of attacking someone for their opinion.

As far as our governments go there has been some significant messes created by them all and we can go back prior to the Rae government for sure. Harris left a stain not an improvement by any stretch and the Liberals after him have been worse by many accounts. Perhaps this thread should be about how any Government 'of the day' can right the ship.....lord knows the previous ones have not been able to do so.

And if you're sensitive to mentioning Harris's name in this discussion then your view is narrow in context about the whole issue.

[JBen]

Parents who "don't have time, we're busy" to read for 10-30 minutes a night with their child. Parents that think - That's what I pay you for.

Have to disagree FW.

6:00am leave home to be in the office for 7:00am
6:00pm or 7:00pm arrive home
7:00pm sit down for dinner
7:30pm start cleaning it away
7:30-8:30 homework
9:00pm girls went to bed
Gee do I get much quality time with them?
Laundary, other domestic things, etc, etc
That was the typical weekday/evening in my house.

And teachers moan about their yellow grass? I vividly recall those days and wondering why it was…..

[Sharon]

You're correct Rugger, 3 years ago contracts were stripped under a new Ontario law. Teachers have not had a contract since then. My other half is a teacher so I see the communiques that are shared from the Unions. I'm not a great lover of unions but I can see what they are currently fighting.
The government came to the table with further reductions and stripping items out of their previous contract.....that's not going to go well for any employee group especially when our illustrious govt sees fit to give the OPP an 8.5% raise over 3 years....ditto our firefighters and ditto our local workers. The only thing offered was further reductions NOT additions so I don't think there are many other employee groups out there that would accept this. Take a look at Hydro one, and any other employee group for comparison.

I hate to see any form of striking whether it's walk outs or work to rule but our current and poorly run govt lead by a weak leader is creating this situation. By the way some of the responses you have heard from Liz Sandals are out right lies especially about who walked from the table.

Local Boards of Education used to manage this situation very well, they determined local tax rates as far as the education component went, they negotiated with their employees but along came Mike Harris with his great idea of stripping their power, this situation started going down hill long before McGinnty/Wynne took over and they sure haven't corrected things either.

So how could this have been avoided...perhaps a modest cost of living increase even if not the same as OPP/firemen since there has been nothing but stripping in recent years.

I doubt there is anyone here that would respond favourably to wake up and find your employer taking away salary, sick days, health benefits etc without responding to this.

Our govt has created this problem and I'm not sure they can or want to fix things so time to lay some heavy blame on the Sandals/Wynne team and your local MPP .

..................................................

Thank you for some facts.

[Fishy Wishy]

Have to disagree FW.

6:00am leave home to be in the office for 7:00am
6:00pm or 7:00pm arrive home
7:00pm sit down for dinner
7:30pm start cleaning it away
7:30-8:30 homework
9:00pm girls went to bed
Gee do I get much quality time with them?
Laundary, other domestic things, etc, etc
That was the typical weekday/evening in my house.

And teachers moan about their yellow grass? I vividly recall those days and wondering why it was…..

Disagree all you want...but, You covered the homework (1 hour a night). That's what I (actually my teacher friend) was getting at. Some parents expect the teachers to do it all, without any involvement from home/parents.

I live it.
Wife leaves house 6:45 am
Me and kids leave house 7:35.
School Bus 7:42
I'm at work by 8:00
Wife gets kids off bus at 3:25
Takes kids to dance studio for 4:30
I leave office 5:30 or 6:00 (maybe later)
Meet wife at dance studio 1/2 hour after leaving work.
Family dinner??? What's that?
Kids both home by 9:30.
Shower if needed then bed.
Me and wife clean house, dishes, laundry etc after kids are in bed....crash!

The evening varies M-F but at least 1 kid is dancing each night. They dance 10 hours (youngest) and 13 hours (oldest) per week. Tap, Jazz, hip-hop, ballet, acro, lyrical plus technique and conditioning. That is aside from their solo practices, ballet exam coaching and any extra performances they partake in.

We still manage in there to fit homework and some reading...although my oldest reads at a level above most HS students. My youngest we help practice her "dictee" and take home reading en Francais.

Since before school we always read at bedtime, from Green Eggs and Ham to The Children's Atlas to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

If you want your children to succeed you need to lead by example, encourage and put in your own time. If you aren't doing these things and your kid's marks are suffering, you are part of the problem.

[Sharon]

I just had a conversation on EQAO standarized testing with a teacher friend and her concerns about EQAO seem valid and genuine.

The EQAO does not have consideration for Learning Difficulties of any kind.
The EQAO has no consideration for ESL students.
Teachers are not allowed to rephrase a question if the child does not understand it as written. (This is a largew part of why teachers teach to the test).
Apparently a die (singular form of the word dice) is too negative a word so a die is referred to as a "number cube" Who calls a die (or dice) number cube(s)?
If you are in an English school the test is in English, French school French test. My daughters in French Immersion (from an English school) get the test in...English (even though their instruction is in French).
Some schools have lots of ESL students, or socio-economic strife, lack of parental involvement (parents who are uneducated themselves or are poor parents) due to zoning. Some just have high instances of LDs.

Kids are not help back/allowed to fail etc. In any classroom/grade there may be a large spread of abilities. I had my Daughter's first principal (when he put her and two other kids, in a split grade class 1/2, when she was in Grade 1) tell me in or interview as I was concerned, that in any grade there is a 4-5 grade year spread in literacy ability. In Grade 2 they had kids reading at an SK level through to a grade 4 level.

My friend complains about this as how can 1 teacher in a classroom be expected to teach to 30 students with such a varying range in ability?

A big complaint is the parents not holding up their part of the "contract". Parents who "don't have time, we're busy" to read for 10-30 minutes a night with their child. Parents that think - That's what I pay you for.

I have been caught saying the same thing...but the context was different when a teacher sent home comments on my daughter's EQAO prep test saying that we (as parents) should work with my daughter on polynomial shapes (or whatever it was). I was like huh? What? This test reflects on you, not my child. AFAIC this test is to guage your ability as a teacher and the quality of this school. (BTW my daughter scored level 4 in all 3 areas of testing - the only one in her school to do so that year.) Since then we have moved her (an now her sister) to another school that offered French Immersion in a grade 4 start, hoping to gain them some more challenges and skills. My oldest was identified as "gifted" with a high IQ, and my youngest is supposed to be tested this year (don't know what the strike will do to that plan). My youngest is said (by teachers who know them both) to have the oldest beat. LOL

Off topic and forgot where I was going. So I'll sign off.

...............

Well said. The schools will be prioritized in order of best results to worst. In London, I can tell you right now which will be the schools at the bottom of the list - and it will have nothing to do with the quality of the teachers at those schools.

[Species8472]

...............

Well said. The schools will be prioritized in order of best results to worst. In London, I can tell you right now which will be the schools at the bottom of the list - and it will have nothing to do with the quality of the teachers at those schools.

If the students in the poorly performing school are anything like I was it probably has something to do with it (and I'm sure parents play the largest factor). I remember the old Canadian Basic Skills testing we used to do. As soon as I heard that the tests were mandatory and that they would not affect our marks I made a point of trying to screw the system up as much as possible.

Once the test results came back I would get called into the office due to my poor performance. During the inevitable questioning I would respond "but did you look at the cards? If you connect the dots they make really cool pictures of boats and airplanes."

[JBen]

So with real lives like that FW, and it was my life to.

When do kids get to be kids with their parents, get quality time with their parents? There were a lot of nights when it was Eat, homework, bath, bed.And do we not discuss in other threads, topics the social end/aspects of children today and parents..
There’s a price for that.

Family dinner??? What's that?

Just one of the most important times of the day. To sit down as a family, talk, about the day, their day, laugh, whatever.