Peace in education

[fratri]

Ontario is not in trouble because of teachers, it's in trouble because of poor leadership..... If the government learned how to spend our money respectfully, we wouldn't be having this conversation....

[Rugger]

Better for them to give up a couple weeks of pay now to have a fatter pension when they retire at 53 yrs old.

If only teachers retired at the age of 53, or even as soon as they are eligible for their full pension I think we would be much better off lol. Young teachers are way cheaper than the ones at the top of the pay scale.

When you compare teachers (average salary 83,500) with nurses (average salary 64,100) and factor in that teachers get two months off in the summer, two weeks at Christmas, and a week at March break, straight 9-5 days, no weekends, straight days, no evening or night shifts, you really have to wonder how that happened.

And before you start comparing the number of nurses vs teachers on the sunshine lists, in the high skilled nursing positions (emerg, icu), there is an endless demand for nurses to fill OT shifts because hospitals do not staff enough full time positions to do the work required. The sunshine nurses make the list by working crazy amounts of OT.

That salary comparison you have up there seems a little off so I tried to find the numbers.
I think the number you have for average teacher is the average high school teacher salary PLUS benifits and I'm guessing that the nursing number is just salary.

[mosquito]

If only teachers retired at the age of 53, or even as soon as they are eligible for their full pension I think we would be much better off lol. Young teachers are way cheaper than the ones at the top of the pay scale.


That salary comparison you have up there seems a little off so I tried to find the numbers.
I think the number you have for average teacher is the average high school teacher salary PLUS benifits and I'm guessing that the nursing number is just salary.

Five surprising jobs that pay six-figure salaries (2013 article)
http://www.workopolis.com/content/ad...gure-salaries/

Teachers
Though not all hit the $100,000 mark, teachers in Ontario have an average salary of $83,500, which puts them on par with the average lawyer in Ontario, according to Macleans Magazine who counted 88 teachers in Hamilton alone who make more than $100,000. Though good earning potential and work-life balance make teaching a good career option, an abundance of teachers make this a career choice with low employment prospects.


88 teachers in Hamilton alone on the Sunshine list.....



Labour unrest must be infuriating for new teachers (2012 article)
http://www.macleans.ca/work/jobs/lab...-new-teachers/
...would follow a 34 per cent wage increase over the past eight years, wherein the average teacher’s salary rose to $83,500.




34% increase over 8 years..... no wonder the Unions and teachers backed the Liberals.

[terrym]

Like I said earlier. The teachers and Liberals need each other. They will kiss and make up.

[JBen]

Not because of Teachers I agree.

However,
their Unions reaped the benefits of overspending for many years.
Their Unions have worked tirelessly for 15 years keeping this gov’t in power.
They certainly helped contribute to the financial problems of today, so yes they helped make their own bed. Lie in it.

Is that what we teach our children? Not to take responsibility for their decisions?

And at the very least didn’t their Union just vote for them?
Spend Millions convincing the undecided or gullible to elect them?

Deal with it, thats what I try to teach my children. Own and take responsilbity.

This is Bob Rae and the social contract all over again. And because he finally had to find some back bone and save money…The Unions cried, didn’t like the facts…and as a result…Strikes, unrest, becoming mercenaries for hire.

And enter Mike Harris

Guess our esteemed teaching Unions a) don’t want to take responsibility and b) haven’t learned from history

[Rugger]

Five surprising jobs that pay six-figure salaries (2013 article)
http://www.workopolis.com/content/ad...gure-salaries/

Teachers
Though not all hit the $100,000 mark, teachers in Ontario have an average salary of $83,500, which puts them on par with the average lawyer in Ontario, according to Macleans Magazine who counted 88 teachers in Hamilton alone who make more than $100,000. Though good earning potential and work-life balance make teaching a good career option, an abundance of teachers make this a career choice with low employment prospects.


88 teachers in Hamilton alone on the Sunshine list.....



Labour unrest must be infuriating for new teachers (2012 article)
http://www.macleans.ca/work/jobs/lab...-new-teachers/
...would follow a 34 per cent wage increase over the past eight years, wherein the average teacher’s salary rose to $83,500.




34% increase over 8 years..... no wonder the Unions and teachers backed the Liberals.

Ok, I'll give you that. 34% increase over 8 years is excessive and out of whack.

I was reacting to the gap between the average RN and teacher, it doesn't sound right. My salary + benefits came from here:
Elementary school teachers in Ontario earn an average $80,392 in salary and benefits, according to the ministry of education. Secondary school teachers earn slightly more, an average of $83,543.

And the average just doesn't sound right if this is true:

Annual starting salary for a new teacher at lowest and highest pay rates: $45,709, $55,404
Salary for a teacher with more than 10 years of service at the lowest and highest pay rates: $76,021, $94,707
From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6015968/

As far as the sunshine list goes, the only way they can hit the sunshine list is by doing a 4 over 5 (80% of salary for 4 years and then off year 5 with 80% of pay) and then working on the 5th year and or teaching summer school.
I'll bet that if you look at the sunshine list the year before and the year after you won't see the same teacher names on the list.

[Hunter John]

Many teachers at my board make the sunshine list regularly, mind you they teach summer school and night school. These are veteran high school teachers at the top of the pay grade.

[Rugger]

Just to clarify I'm in no way supporting pay hikes for teachers. And I'm definitely not sticking up for the union until they start working (even a little bit) to bolster the integrity of the profession and as rightly pointed out take a little reality check. I know they are always accused of being in the pocket of the Liberals but none the less they manage to spend months- years arguing with all walks of government, NDP, Conservative and Liberal.

On the other hand I don't think its fair for someone to say "Teachers have never done a day of real work in their lives" when the person saying that has never done a day of teaching in their lives.... and tends to have and image of teaching that is totally out of date and/or based on "I heard about this one teacher who..."

Now most of the teachers I know are still fairly new to the profession and spend hours and hours developing lessons and putting in extra time coaching, tutoring and mentoring. Perhaps once they have all of their lessons perfected and have enough seniority to not have to worry about being asked to teach different subject each year then it becomes the walk in the park everyone thinks it is.

Now is it possible for a teacher to teach only the bare minimum school day hours, get the special ed, low number "unteachable" students and play movies every day and make up believable marks? Of course it is and I'm sure there are some "teachers" who do something like that. However this is not the bar we should set or expect of our teachers and I think it should be part of the union's job to make sure this is not tolerated as opposed to defending them.

[mosquito]

Ok, I'll give you that. 34% increase over 8 years is excessive and out of whack.

I was reacting to the gap between the average RN and teacher, it doesn't sound right. My salary + benefits came from here:
Elementary school teachers in Ontario earn an average $80,392 in salary and benefits, according to the ministry of education. Secondary school teachers earn slightly more, an average of $83,543.

And the average just doesn't sound right if this is true:

Annual starting salary for a new teacher at lowest and highest pay rates: $45,709, $55,404
Salary for a teacher with more than 10 years of service at the lowest and highest pay rates: $76,021, $94,707
From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6015968/

As far as the sunshine list goes, the only way they can hit the sunshine list is by doing a 4 over 5 (80% of salary for 4 years and then off year 5 with 80% of pay) and then working on the 5th year and or teaching summer school.
I'll bet that if you look at the sunshine list the year before and the year after you won't see the same teacher names on the list.

The article from Canada.com is from September 3, 2008 and contains this

Elementary school teachers in Ontario earn an average $80,392 in salary and benefits, according to the ministry of education. Secondary school teachers earn slightly more, an average of $83,543.
...
"With the wage increases on offer, the average elementary school teacher's salary will rise to $90,481 in four years"


So in 2012 it was estimated by this article that elementary is $90,000 and using the same amount difference that would make secondary $93,000... in 2012 then add recent increase.



and even in the globe and mail it talks about...

Teachers are eligible to retire with a full pension at age 65 or when their years of work plus their age equals 85.
..
A teacher earning $90,000 a year with 32 years of service would have an annual pension of $57,600.


So a 55 year old teacher who started at 25 can retire at a full pension... sweet!

[Hunter John]

I don't place the blame with the teachers at all Rugger in fact I support them and realize 99% of them are great and in it for the right reasons. Its the system that's broken not the teachers and you are bang on when you said the unions need to bolster the integrity of the profession.