Shotguns with screw in chokes.... exceed the 20mm so now prohibited????

[fishermccann]

That survey was from a couple of years ago when populations were close to equal equal!

As of 1 January 2020, the population of Honduras was estimated to be 8,624,028 people. This is an increase of 1.47 % (124,685 people) compared to population of 8,499,343 the year before.

. In 2018, the total population of Switzerland amounted to around 8.48 million people.

Is that close enough for you

The Swiss have mandatory service in the army. That says it all but I will add, it is not just the population, but the location in the world. Would you say the Spanish are more emotional, or quick tempered than the Swiss. Never mind the other variables, like the violent neighbors surrounding them. As JB is wont to say, that is like comparing fruit to vegetables. The comparisons and hence the results do not make rational sense.

[JBen]

Yep, it is.

It’s like looking at the Covid fatalies between Italy and Canada. Apples to Oranges. Both are fruit, but vastly different.

their population is older. But it’s older for reasons ( diet, general health). And that’s just the beginning.

[410001661]

Well,after borrowing a machinist micrometer and removing my shotgun barrels, if bore inner diameter is measured at the front of the forcing cone and not at the muzzle as some claim,both my 12ga. guns are within the threshold (20mm). Evidently,after all these years,I find that I've been measuring barrels at the muzzle incorrectly. See,you really can teach old dogs new tricks.

Again.......I told you guys. But you were gripped by panic and fear - LOL

[fishfood]

J ben

There may be a theory of covid and the heat . Warmer climates are seeing less confirmed cases examples I've heard the south end of north America had less outbreaks then the northern parts.

Also Japan and Australia have way less, it alot hotter there now . Yes Japan was the one of the first to start the shut downs schools and such but they are still open for business. Restaurants and bars are open till 9pm and only letting it half the regular amount of people to leave room for social distancing. Australia has alot more restrictions than Japan only a theory but being islands it could also be a thing.

Had to call my buddy the other day to see what they were doing differently than Canada. He has family in both Japan and Australia also he lived in Japan for 11 years so he still keeps the contact with them. Japan is running not like here they only put in half the restrictions we did.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[JBen]

The “point” there is that when using X for comparative purposes against Y. You want to account for all variables. So you have a baseline. If you can’t control those...

Using Canada/US and comparing our gun deaths. Forget gun control differences. Forget all differences except.

We pay a ton of taxes. Some gun owners gripe about that. They don’t pay a ton. They have issues with inner cities, poverty, literacy, access to healthcare/mental health etc.

Think our guns deaths would be the same?

[JBen]

Regarding Bores.

I guess people missed this.

The CBSA defines bore as from throat to muzzle. If you do, maybe your there today with your 12ga. Good chance your not getting back into Canada with it.

Borethe inside of the barrel of a firearm, from the throat to the muzzle, through which the projectile travels.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publicat...-13-2-eng.html

Should have added. We all know there’s a simple solution. But right now it is potentially a big problem.

[seabast]

Not sure if this will help but here we go:

Good Morning,

With respect to your concerns regarding the legality of shotguns of 12, or 10 gauge:

The SFSS (Specialized Firearm Support Services) section of the RCMP uses the SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute) definition of bore diameter.

This definition states: Shotguns or muskets, the interior dimension of the barrel forward of the chamber but before any restrictive choke or expanded muzzle.

https://saami.org/glossary/bore-diameter/

As such, the 12 gauge and 10 gauge shotgun bores both fall below the 20 mm limit as outlined Subsection 95 of SOR/2020-96 as the 12 gauge and 10 gauge shotguns have nominal bore diameters of 18.5 mm and 19.69 mm respectively.

In short, both 12 gauge and 10 gauge shotguns are unaffected by Subsection 95 of SOR/2020-96.

I have attached an image for your reference.

Please let us know if you have any further questions,

My response:

Thank you for the followup, I still have a few concerns, however. First of all, is there any legislation in Canada that recognizes the authority of SAAAMI to define this? Because other governmental agencies seem to use a different definition. CBSA Memorandum D19-13-2 (https://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications...-13-2-eng.html), for example, defines the bore as "the inside of the barrel of a firearm, from the throat to the muzzle, through which the projectile travels." Also, SAAAMI specifies that the industry standard, by the definition they provide, of the bore for 10 ga is up to 20.2mm, as found on page 19 of the following document. https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...2019-04-23.pdf. Does this make 10 ga prohibited, by the SAAAMI definition?

Their response:

Hello, SAAMI is just one of the standards organizations that specializes in firearms that we use internally and that are used across industry and different governmental partners. The AFTE definition of shotgun bore diameter, for example, explicitly excludes chokes, whether removable or integral. The CBSA's definition is more broad and generalized and while it is "good enough" for most things, please remember that their definition is largely meant to be used in the context of their specific legislation.

You are correct that the SAAMI spec for 10ga has a built-in tolerance that could bring certain shotguns past 20mm bore. If that is the case, then those individual shotguns could be affected by the new legislation. However, the nominal bore diameter listed in the specification is under 20mm, so 10ga shotguns are not, in general, affected by this legislation.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/...truth_matters/

And saami specifies 10 gauge is up to 20.2mm

https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/...02mm_if_youre/

[huntervinni]

So for any American wanting to travel to Canada to hunt with their 12 gauge will not be allowed access because the CBSA definition is different than the SAAAMI definition?.........Great there goes more revenue for our Northern Ontario outfitters because of this bogus legislation.

[mosquito]

Seabast

The key point you are missing is the removable choke, if that is considered to be not part of the barrel as per the two lawyers views and the definition you give above... take out the choke and boom it is over.... as per my earlier post. I am sure you can find many different definitions on the bore size, but given the lack of definition in the legislation, the allowance for interpretation until defined in court it is the opinion of lawyers and judges that matter, not an industry definition. The rifles involved are industry defined as semi-automatic rifles, NOT assault rifles also but that is irrelevant to the legal definition as defined by ideologues making the laws and judges.

Let's see..... since some seems to not notice page 6 and 7 of the opinion that specifies the size... how about another place. In the opinion he talk about a diameter of .814 which exceeds the 20mm and he lists models and diameters and concludes with ...

https://www.csaaa.org/wp-content/upl...e-shotguns.pdf
"In my opinion 12 gauge shotgun with the screw in systems for use of "Winchoke", "Browning Invector", and "Beretta Optima and Optima Plus" are prohibited under the definition in Section 9 of SOR 2020/96

These noted barrel systems are presently prohibited firearms as defined in SOR 2020/96.
" - Edward L. Burlew LL.B.

So to validate it I found a page for installing a Winchoke...
https://ktgunsmith.com/choketube.htm

... now let's look at the tool and it's cut.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...prod25287.aspx
SPECS: 12 gauge has .814"-32 tpi.

... now convert .814 ... 20.6756 .... ooops .....

What you have posted at the end of the day is relevant only to fixed choke barrels unfortunately.

[410001661]

Seabast

The key point you are missing is the removable choke, if that is considered to be not part of the barrel as per the two lawyers views and the definition you give above... take out the choke and boom it is over.... as per my earlier post. I am sure you can find many different definitions on the bore size, but given the lack of definition in the legislation, the allowance for interpretation until defined in court it is the opinion of lawyers and judges that matter, not an industry definition. The rifles involved are industry defined as semi-automatic rifles, NOT assault rifles also but that is irrelevant to the legal definition as defined by ideologues making the laws and judges.



What you have posted at the end of the day is relevant only to fixed choke barrels unfortunately.

Skitter
You are fear mongering - maybe you should put on a tinfoil hat (kidding aside). Shotguns are not part of the intent of the gun ban and the CSSA is just grandstanding to show how hastily this was put together.

When you get two lawyers on opposing sides of an issue to agree on something than you have something.........two lawyers on the same side of an issue agreeing is nothing. CSSA is not a governing body, hell we can hire a lawyer and make our own statements and assumptions about out interpretation of this gun ban - all you need is time and money.

But people running around screaming the sky is falling does nothing but incite fear and panic - honestly we look like simpleton's when we cannot interpret the intent of the law. Do not take away from the fact that they are taking away 85,000 AR's from legal gun owners and all some people can say is.........oooh look........this also includes shotguns - pleeeaaase. Riddle me this.......the reason Bill and Justin did not include pistols in this ban was because it would cost too much money because of the quantities that are in circulation. Then why in hell would he 'intentionally' include shotguns with interchangeable chokes?