Another Attack - This Time in UK

[Fox]

i dont usually get involved in political talks on this forum, but this one i gotta get in on......
there are millions of muslims and non-white immigrants in north america doing no harm, and living within the fabric of our culture and economy.

there is definitely a problem with muslim extremism, but stopping legal immigration is not going to change that. IMO the first step is not fast tracking refugees into any country, as this will be a vessel for extremists to get people access to different countries.
but the second thing is people need to start speaking up about how extremism is the true issue here. if we all run around saying that every muslim is the issue, than people who practice islam (literally billions of people) and left wing people put up there guard and we are faced with extensive political correctness and worse as a backlash.

just as there are extremists in most religions, there are extremists in the islamic faith, and they are increasing and getting more traction all around the world. but if you paint them all with the same brush, you are going to encourage more and more people to take up arms against what they feel is a slight on their religion, and some people will feel they have no other options. This is a very complicated issue, but shutting down the borders to all immigration and being a bigot is certainly not the answer!!
just my thoughts...

Just today a 19 year old Israeli Jew was arrested for bomb threats on Jewish targets.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israeli...gets-1.4037564

I agree, it is extremism not the religion in any case. If it were the religion then Christianity is by far the worst, look at all the people killed in the name of the Christian god.

Oh, I forgot, it is all the same god.

[Species8472]

I agree, it is extremism not the religion in any case. If it were the religion then Christianity is by far the worst, look at all the people killed in the name of the Christian god.

Oh, I forgot, it is all the same god.

Most Muslims and most Christians would say that the extreme elements in their respective religions are not actually part of their religion and that it is ideology that is operating outside the confines of their respective religions. In any event the two worst killers in history were atheists being Stalin and Chairman Mao who dwarfed all others including the Nazis. Their are lots of others like Pol Pot, the N. Korean Kims, Mengistu and the list goes on, who clearly show that religion has nothing to do with it. It is a capacity that is found in all ideologies be they religious or not.

[Fox]

Most Muslims and most Christians would say that the extreme elements in their respective religions are not actually part of their religion and that it is ideology that is operating outside the confines of their respective religions. In any event the two worst killers in history were atheists being Stalin and Chairman Mao who dwarfed all others including the Nazis. Their are lots of others like Pol Pot, the N. Korean Kims, Mengistu and the list goes on, who clearly show that religion has nothing to do with it. It is a capacity that is found in all ideologies be they religious or not.

Many people used religion as a basis for the destruction of cultures. The Spanish inquisition was one, the Conquistadors was another. When the Roman emperor converted to Christianity it was illegal to not be a Christian, which was an exact flip flop from the previous views where it was illegal to be Christian.

It is all money and power and using a means to brainwash people in following and being sheep. If it is religion or race or ideology, politics, it is all the same.

There are no religions based on evil things but it is very easy to make any religion an evil thing and that has been proven time and time again.

If you were to compare body counts of total secular and non-secular based deaths in history I am sure that deaths in the name of the Christian God would out number any other, simply due to the expansion into the West by the Romans and then the Spanish, French and British as well as the expansion of colonialism into Africa.

[Species8472]

If you were to compare body counts of total secular and non-secular based deaths in history I am sure that deaths in the name of the Christian God would out number any other, simply due to the expansion into the West by the Romans and then the Spanish, French and British as well as the expansion of colonialism into Africa.

Probably not. Most of the top ten body count events in history happened in Asia and were the result of the Chinese killing each other or the Mongol Expansion or Tamerlane. WW2 and WW1 make the top ten but have more deaths from non-religious combatants (Stalin) than others. The conquest of the Americas is in the top ten but it is debatable as to whether it was a "Christian" event but even if assume it was the toll in the Americas, Africa, Europe and the Crusades pales in comparison to what has been carried out in China by past dynasties and communists plus the going ons in Asia and Africa by the Khans (they were religious but not Christian), Tamerlane (Muslim), and a host of other atheist communist regimes.

I am not saying that atrocities were not committed by Christians but as far one group being the "worst" it not as simple as you seem to make it. Historically things like the WWs and the colonial expansion were driven by geopolitics more than religion. It just happens that the countries doing these things happened to be Christian dominated at that point in their respective histories. There is a key difference, today's ISIS extremists are doing things explicitly in the name of their religion. Things like the Crusades and the Inquisition would be comparable but geopolitical expansion while certainly lethal for many is not really comparable to today's extremists. If things like geopolical wars/expansion are attributed to Christians than one would need to attribute the Mongol Empire to whatever form of Paganism the Khan was into or the various Chinese campaigns to whatever Eastern religion was practiced at the time.

Regardless, if we want to pick one "worst" group in history and base that group on say race, religion or ideology it would likely be atheist communism.

[Fox]

Probably not. Most of the top ten body count events in history happened in Asia and were the result of the Chinese killing each other or the Mongol Expansion or Tamerlane. WW2 and WW1 make the top ten but have more deaths from non-religious combatants (Stalin) than others. The conquest of the Americas is in the top ten but it is debatable as to whether it was a "Christian" event but even if assume it was the toll in the Americas, Africa, Europe and the Crusades pales in comparison to what has been carried out in China by past dynasties and communists plus the going ons in Asia and Africa by the Khans (they were religious but not Christian), Tamerlane (Muslim), and a host of other atheist communist regimes.

I am not saying that atrocities were not committed by Christians but as far one group being the "worst" it not as simple as you seem to make it. Historically things like the WWs and the colonial expansion were driven by geopolitics more than religion. It just happens that the countries doing these things happened to be Christian dominated at that point in their respective histories. There is a key difference, today's ISIS extremists are doing things explicitly in the name of their religion. Things like the Crusades and the Inquisition would be comparable but geopolitical expansion while certainly lethal for many is not really comparable to today's extremists. If things like geopolical wars/expansion are attributed to Christians than one would need to attribute the Mongol Empire to whatever form of Paganism the Khan was into or the various Chinese campaigns to whatever Eastern religion was practiced at the time.

Regardless if we want to pick one "worst" group in history it would likely be an Asian group.

Genghis Khan was an interesting one, he actually did not kill all that many people in the grand scheme of things, he absorbed a lot more people.

What I was trying to convey is that the religion of the super power of the time was used as a means of making the atrocities ok for the people. To this I mean that the British going into the Americas were just dealing with the "savages" who did things differently and believed differently. They were in it for expansion and in the end money but to tell the poor of your country that they should go kill all these people so the king can get rich is not as easy to swallow as to tell them they need to convert them of kill them as they are against your and your beliefs. Power is all about control, without control you have no power. Fear is a very good way of controlling people and that is done through causes, be that class, religion, race, land owner vs developer, family vs family, it can take any form and has probably taken them all.

[yellow dog]

Keep in mind Fox no matter what faith or belief, people will distort the teachings to their liking for power and greed. Christianity is based on love , forgiveness and people will twist it.

[cantcatchacold]

Damn immigrants coming to the UK and stealing the terrorism jobs from the Irish

[Bonkers]

Well you can't argue with JoePA. He clearly has no idea what he is talking about. When you get all your "facts" from Fox news your a joke. Most of these "terrorist attacks" in North America have been done by right wing white men like Joe.

[glen]

They are terrorists.

Why does it matter what else they are.

[Dythbringer]

They are terrorists.

Why does it matter what else they are.

Because the OP is trying to link all terrorism to immigrants/muslims. That is why.