Fed Issue #23 - Federal Liberals eye tax on private health and dental plans, grabbing $2.9B

[terrym]

Did you bother to read the article Terry, because it doesn't seem like it.

Current tax code as I said treats things like LI, gym memberships, cars, etc...As Taxable benefits. Why not health/dental plans?

If your receiving something ( A benefit) from your company that saves you money, it is in essence income. Just because its not cash money, doesnt mean it isnt so. Maybe you favor a world where the company pays minimum wage and gives you loafs of bread instead so it's not taxable as income? Sounds like it...

So, if all these other things are treated as taxable benefits......

And then further.
Without arguement, it's irrefutable that the so called middle class is being pummelled.
Further 6 in 10 dont have Pensions, can't save
Further another 4 in 10 have to pay for their own private plans at full cost, with after tax dollars. I imagine a big chunk of these are the self employed and small businesses

Imo, walk a mile in their shoes.
************

True, its possible they may do many things. Whether they do or dont doesnt change the merit of this.

yes of course I read the article. My point is health care benefits should not be taxed like the other perqs. Also the middle class tend to be employed full time with most having health benefits plans so again those lieing bazturds are screwing us. Take away the sports deductions from our kids and now tax the dental work too. Slap on a carbon tax to raise the cost of food production and you will see quality of food consumed deteriorates. The money goes to fat pay increases and improved benefits for government employees.

[JBen]

THose would by the 65% of hard working people that dont have Pensions, and another 40% that dont have health/dental, your referring to?

You do know that the mean in both Ontario and Canada is 70-75k duo? By definition thats the middle class. And with the sky rocketing cost of living, taxation, more. Its no wonder they cant save a dime for their futures and 40% of people pay for their own plans...

What you think that's because its the lazy?
I swear people that live and work in the GTA have lost touch with reality/perspective. Please dont take offense, I count (ed) myself among that for many years.

news flash Terry, have you looked at Healthcare lately? There are huge gaping cracks.
Granted one reason for that is the usual waste, overspending etc, etc.
Another is we dont pay enough.<<< Could also be worded as "we pay a ton already, but so much is wasted, or goes to other things/people, etc)

Bottom line
Healthcare is the biggest drain on the budgets. Period.
And it's getting worse (cost)
And the cracks are getting worse.

Oddly enough I just paid out of pocket today for a colonoscopy.

[glen]

All of the shell games go on just to confuse people.
Total tax amount is the number I would like to see. Then compare it to other countries.

[terrym]

Did you bother to read the article Terry, because it doesn't seem like it.

Current tax code as I said treats things like LI, gym memberships, cars, etc...As Taxable benefits. Why not health/dental plans?

If your receiving something ( A benefit) from your company that saves you money, it is in essence income. Just because its not cash money, doesnt mean it isnt so. Maybe you favor a world where the company pays minimum wage and gives you loafs of bread instead so it's not taxable as income? Sounds like it...

i have been paying taxes for over 40 years. I have had jobs that were 100% commission based and have pretty well always enjoyed all the perquisit benefits you are trying to lecture me on. I am quite informed on our tax laws. But where in the hell you ever read me saying this cr@p above about companies paying minimum wage and doling out loaves of bread truly baffles the hell out if me. These money grubbing policies like carbon taxes and health benefit taxes hurt the middle class far more than the upper classes through inflation and reduced disposable income. The guy making $200k won't notice the cost of his increased health benefits because it's peanuts to him. The guy making $60k basically pays the same amount, who do you think will have to cutback more?

[JBen]

It was sarcasm, intended to highlight your comment about taxable benefits
The guy making 60k if he/she is one of the 60% with nothing..........

And terry if you don't understand, that huge chunks of Canada don't have Pensions or Benefits. Im not sure what to say and most of those will be the small businesses/self employed. And if you take "pride" in getting what you have/where you are in life without leaning on Govt.
fine, pay for your health dental like almost half the country does.
Or pay a little extra in tax, by having it treated as a taxable benefit like virtually every other benefit.

And before I go.
Was I in favour Orp?

Arguing that the money will be redirected or squandered ( E-Health) is an entirely different argument from whether a change to tax code makes sense. Which this does.

[Noseyarentcha]

Jben, I respectfully disagree that healthcare is the biggest drain on the budgets.
People who are unwilling to work is.
We pay more and more and more....the only people who benefit 100% from this type of BS are the people who choose not to work.
I say we funnel this type of money to WORKING people only and see how that works.
The person behind you or in front of you who does not work because he chooses not to, just got his/her colonoscopy for FREE.
Thanks to us.
...I do hope you will be ok Jben. Hope your tests come back fine. Wishing you well.

[terrym]

I'm not denying many don't have benefits. I'm not denying a lot of those benefits should be taxable. I pay tax on my benefits, I'm ok with that. But healthcare should not be part of that. It's just eventually going to end up straining the overburdened health system. We already pay a health surtax in Ontario. And you keep bringing up pensions, I don't have a company pension so the increased taxes I will pay in carbon and now health taxes reduce what I have available to contribute to my personal plan. I either cutback my contributions or cut back on spending. When a large chunk of the population cuts spending back the economy shrinks as does employment and standard of living. So, again it's obvious this government only cares about re-election and couldn't care less about our kids or health of the country.

[JBen]

You are always free to disagree Nosey. That said
I'll use Ontario because it smaller/simpler. healthcare eats almost 50% of the budget.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/summary-table-1-operating

Terry I "get ya", and while I would normally "agree", good tax code is good tax code. And in this case it's good. Id say that no matter who was in. Harper at one time was tarred and feathered because he changed the tax code on REITs.....Sometimes, things makes sense and sometimes they don't.


Healthcare is something we take for granted here (despite it's many cracks and problems). How often do Americans point at Canada ands "Wish we had their free healthcare".

Except 1) It's not free
Except 2) Some of it, is free for some.

We can't control (other than with our votes) how governments spend (or waste) tax revenue. That doesn't change whether or not some element of tax code makes sense, or is "good".

Huge chunks of the populace have neither Pensions or Benefits and, more pay no taxes on their health/dental benefits ( a form of income). We could also argue that even those who have benefits. Some have caviar plans, some have beer plans. Not all benefit plans are equal.
Why shouldn't some that be taxable.

Over burdened system.
Yep, your talking to a guy who in the last ten years has shelled out over $40,000 in medical expenses. Have also shelled out a lot for one of my daughters..who by the way these days is self employed, works 6 days a week ( like many, and many more in years to come will).And has private plan, she has to pay for with after tax dollars. I know she's a lazy bum with no drive to make it on her own.

And I know many others who
A) Are paying a lot for medical and a couple who have flown to the states despite paying huge amounts in tax dollars

B) Are self employed or small business that have private plans

Explain to me Terry why I. Who would pay more in taxes some years than many people bring home. Why I had to pay over $40,000, and why if my cancer comes back I'm going to the states at my own expense?

[Noseyarentcha]

Pretty scary numbers being allocated to certain areas that seem to be used by the same "groups" of people.
Geesh.
There's never going to be a, "right way" to do any of this.
Everyone should get the same level of health care and it should all be "free."
Why should you have to pay for a procedure that someone else doesn't have to pay for even AFTER you've paid taxes and taxes and more taxes...beginning with your paycheque while the other person doesn't contribute?
In a fair world, that would not happen.
We all know that this world isn't always fair or right or sane.
It is what it is.
In the end, it's the working classes who are paying for everything.
That's just wrong in my opinion.
The gov't will funnel whatever they don't have to use for this project into the next "bleeding heart" fund or their own, "me, me, me" funds.
....and you and I will pay the price.
Why should we have to pay for anothers incarceration, legal fees, etc?
Go to jail?
You pay.
Need a lawyer?
You pay.
Need food, housing,heat, clothing, hydro and capable of working?
You pay.
Not me.
Wonder how much we could save if we stopped paying for all of those things for everyone else?
Jben, I commend your daughter on her work ethic. I hope you did not think I was implying she is a lazy bum because I certainly would not include people like her who work into the "groups" (for lack of the politically correct term) of people I am speaking about.

[JBen]

Lol, yep.

Personally, I suspect there will be more and more people going to more and more private clinics in years to come. Why should anyone who pays a lot in taxes already, have to pay for private procedures, or private plans, or procedures that are no longer covered under OHIP?

And its only going to get worse.

And that is one reason why I believe this is a good change to tax code. How its spent? Who knows. If a tax credit for those with private plans ( Think just the cost of prescription drugs these days and seniors)...........

Do agree that the working class is taking it on the chin. Now I hope this doesn't go downhill or off the rails but the second, third and 4th largest budget eaters?
Education
Salaries and overhead
Debt servicing.

I won't play a fiddle if those with gold plated pensions, gold-plated benefit plans and who make far more than the working stiffs have to start paying their own way for a change, and it gives those who are getting taxed to the teeth a $1,500/year tax credit. Maybe then, they might have $1,500 to put in an RSP or TFSA every year.

Will there be people who this means another $200-$300 ( Guesstimate assuming $100/month payroll deduction and 24% Fed income tax on $1,200 benefit) a year in taxes, who likewise are around or a little above the mean.
Yep. Atleast they have plans.

Many don't.
/looks at Alberta where unemployment is now 9%
/looks at Ontario, rural Ontario
And just regular people getting hammered.

As for the rest.
Well a politician did come along who said he'd save cost,eliminate waste . He got pummelled. And so has every other politicians since around the 80s who has said we can no longer afford to do everything, be everything, for everyone.

But healthcare is something I think we all can agree on everyone should have access to (many don't), and everyone can agree is something we value highly.