Premier Doug Ford has won, Toronto now will have only 25 councilors.
Now, how do we get Andrea Horwath to shut up?
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Premier Doug Ford has won, Toronto now will have only 25 councilors.
Now, how do we get Andrea Horwath to shut up?
HAH!! With a shrill like Horwath,that'll never happen. I'm sure glad the Court of Appeal stayed the decision and it's for damn sure the lefties won't get it to the SCOC. No way in hell The SC will rule against a charter bulwark "Notwithstanding" clause like that without creating a genuine constitutional crisis that could completely shatter the government charter.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Easy, put some more food in the trough in front of her.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
That's a good one ! :goodstuff: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
Sensibility appears to have ruled this time in the courts, and Justice Belobaba has a little ‘splainin to do.
This is just a guess,but,he may be "retiring" very soon to some law firm's corner office.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
How does the rest of Ontario feel, about the personal vendetta that ford is on, against members of Toronto city council ? Should the provincial government not be worrying about things important to the entire province? As a taxpayer in Ontario, who does not vote in Toronto, I am a concerned about the amount of time spent on such frivolous matters. As I have heard on this site many times, from many voices, to much, time and effort is spent on Toronto and its concerns. NOW this is okay? Comments?
I don’t think you can call the savings of 26 million taxpayer dollars....frivolous!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Are YOU saving any money in Chatham because the Provincial government is spending 3 weeks on the cost of council in Toronto? Do not the voters/citizens, of Toronto pay for their own city council? What business is it of the people of Chatham how many councillors in Toronto? Does Toronto need to worry about how many , Chatham, Ottawa, et al. have?
More provincial tax money flows IN to the City of Toronto than flows OUT. I can't wait for the next shoe to drop when the OMB forces Toronto to raise their mil rate to match the rest of the province. If you think all the whinin' and cryin' was bad now,we ain't seen nothin' yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Wrong, look it up. Please. As I have explained to JBen and others on here , as stated by his beloved Frazer Institute, ( con. think tank), that in 2014 (the last years data available) on line, that Toronto sent out 9 BILLION more money out of the GTA ,to the rest of the province, than they took in. Money to pay for all the stuff in small town Ontario. If Toronto kept all their money , most towns could not afford their hospital, or smaller towns a snow plow or garbage truck. The province of Ontario is subsidized, by Toronto and the GTA, like it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
But it's probably that same Toronto that creates the greatest waste too.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Maybe, no certainly, but why should anyone who does not live there, care? How does it affect life in Chatham? Not your money ,not your circus. Take the money your town receives from the GTA and spend it wisely. Why is the provincial government spending weeks on it? Is there not more important work to do?
I like the fact that Ford is down in the US supporting our Federal Government. (trade talks)Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Fisher: most, including I, would tend to agree that this issue smells like a bit of a vendetta against the council and John Tory. But I would more forcefully agree that he was elected to put a stop to the bullshyte and start getting things done. 47 councillors was ridiculous, imagine trying to get anything done, they voted numerous times on the Scarborough subway and it went back and forth for years. I wish some term limits had also been included. Many councillors supported the change, and many of those who didn’t were likely looking out for themselves, apparently there are quite a few who have been on council for a long time.
I don't see how anyone with a lick of sense could think that having 45 city Councillors is not only going to create confusion, inefficiency and unnecessarily complicate running a city, but it is obviously a huge waste of money meant to buy support by giving out cushy well paying jobs to partisan supporters. There is no doubt that city council will be a smoother working, more efficient system that saves taxpayers money in other ways than just salaries. Good on the new premier for using common sense and sticking to his guns.
So I guess this means that Ford doesn't even have to use the Notwithstanding clause now. That will stop the whining.
Cheers
fishermccann is out:fish:again , just don't answer him and he'll go away!
I don’t recall saying anything about Chatham, or the fact I’m saving any money. Fact is, you asserted Fords actions were frivolous.....I merely stated that saving 26 million tax dollars was not frivolous....regardless of who’s dollars they are.... but, troll on !!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
When Toronto city councillors, have twice as many constituents as any other level of government, and 10 times more constituents, than regional councillors surrounding the city something is very wrong. It is a Provincial government , they should concentrate on provincial matters, not fords personal problems with the city who rejected him for mayor. How about that nothwithstanding clause, wonder where he is going to use that next?
People don't like the tough questions..... If you ask them you are fishing. Why oh why has the use of the notwithstanding clause, not come up? Nothing from mosq. and the usuall suspects.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Attachment 37342
Checkout the bottom of my sign tree
Probably because there was nothing wrong with Ford using it in this instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Agreed. The clause was included in the Constitution for a reason, good to see we have a leader with the stones to use it, other provinces certainly have.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
If mosq thought it's use was good , we would have heard that already ,......ad nauseam.
I think this situation looks bad on numerous people.
Ford looks bad for a couple of reasons. It looks like a vendetta against people who disagreed with him when he was a councilor (it is pretty hard to deny this when he starts to name councilors in the media). He looks impatient by not letting the legal process play out during the appeal process before he invoked the Notwithstanding Clause. He looks heavy handed by invoking the NWC in a very regional issue compared to other provincial interests (let's not forget that the original ruling stated that the province was within it's rights to do this but had an issue with the timing so Ford could have waited until after the municipal election to do this). I think the NWC should be used as a very last option when the province is backed into a corner. This situation wasn't one of them and I suspect other instances where he may invoke it won't be either.
The mayor and city councilors who were crying foul about this look bad. City councilors aren't as important as they seem to think. Most residents have been told to contact the city (311 is the number I believe) to get most of their minor problems solved. City councilors only would be involved if the solution couldn't be solved in this manner. If the problem escalates to this manner, most people would be in contact with the councilor's office and staff who would act to solve the problem. Only if the problem needs an advocate (and would look good politically) will a councilor become involved. The way some of the councilor's are speaking in the media, you would think that the city will fall apart if city council doesn't have 47 councilors. If a councilor has to become an advocate for a problem in the city, then the rest of the councilors need to have their input into the problem. A larger city council means that more people will have to have their opinions known on a subject matter. While a city needs leadership (councilors need to be on boards such as police, fire, transit, etc), the more people on council, the more time needs to be devoted to resolving issues which affect the city. Just having a look at how much time has been wasted on the Scarborough subway line is a perfect example of this problem.
Finally, the supports of left side of the political spectrum who challenged Ford's decision to do this look bad. When Wynne was in power, she brought in some questionable policies. Certain people objected and threatened to take the matter to the courts. They were told that this is how democracy in our country works, they should accept it and if they didn't like the way the government was working, then we should vote them out. Well, they did and now the shoe is on the other foot, the left has taken the government to court (and has threatened to do so again on other policies). This is hypocrisy in the worst way. Threatening to do more because you don't like the Premier looks infantile.
Dyth
Dyth...a fine post. I agree about 95% with what you said.
I can agree to a point. Had Ford waited until after the election, the disfunctional 47 would continue to get nothing done for the next four years. If anyone has sat on boards or committees, you would soon find out that the more people on those committees, the less you can get accomplished.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
I can see that. Ford could have done this on his first day rather than waiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
I agree with you that the more people on a board, the less work gets accomplished.
Agreed , but I feel it should be up to the taxpayers and voters of any particular city or town to decide how many councillors it takes to run THEIR city. People on here are always voicing concerns about 'big brother', controlling their lives, yet ,this is an example of that, they are comfortable with.
Well, that’s clearly not the case. Municipal governance is the responsibility of the Province. Nobody knows this better than anyone in Kent County in 1998....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Please guys, give me a break. I put FMC on my ignore list way back and it's been a welcome relief from his inane chatter. But now with you all quoting him I still see his posts and it just encourages him to keep trolling these threads. Like Jaycee said, ignore him and he will go away to his safe place. Tks
Cheers
I’ve often wondered why municipal government is needed at all. One province with one set of rules for all to follow. Turn them into administrators rather than decision makers.
Thank You! but he just keeps reappearing like a baaaad dream, [nightmare]. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
Aww guys......is a dissenting opinion really all that bad ? Sometimes it’s necessary to listen to the other side, it helps remind you why you believe in what you believe in...
Some of you folks must have boring conversations, if you only talk with people you agree with. I can see both sides of any argument , and don't dislike you for your opinion. Many on here have become just like JBen, 'if you are not with me, you are wrong'........ Anyway I am returning to the cottage for the weekend, to catch a few muskies, then the wife and I are going off to Paris next week for 10 days to attend the Ryder Cup. Enjoy the start of duck season.
Hopefully there's no internet connection around your cottage.
Good luck with the slimers. They should start biting well any time.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Thanks, I got 3 last week, for a total so far this year of 15, none were over the 44 inch legal size. My personal record of muskie caught in a season, was a couple of years ago, 27, none of legal size. I'm on a small Kawartha Lake, so legal fish are rare. Lots of fun to get those 40 inchers though.
I will miss you too. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
Now we will be able to have normal discussions , JBen- gone, you gone at least for a while. :goodstuff::happy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
Normal.. you mean where everybody agrees. Everyone nodding in agreement. To me a good discussion should have apposing viewpoints. Enjoy your circle jerk. ( look up the definition if you must).
Because the differences in population densities of Ontario mean different municipalities have different needs. For instance, trash collection makes sense for urban areas and in most of Southern Ontario. Up north, in the sparser portions of province, trash collection is unrealistic. Furthermore, since we are a commonwealth nation, taxes raised in rural areas would be used for trash collection in urban areas (much like Province hands some money to Toronto for the TTC).Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jack
Circle jerk comment is uncalled for.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I guess that you must participate in them quite often as you know all about them! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I did mean the figurative meaning not the literal..ie. Engaged in for mutual gratification. Some on here can dish out the insults ,but can't take them. I have been insulted on here many, many time, 'suck it up buttercup', is what I hear.
“Explained”?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Try argued, which doesn’t mean your right. Or wrong.
And as I “explained” ( pointed out, aka gave you something to think about) to you.
Two words.
300,000,000 debt.
Which is just a number.
Debt.....to......GDP
The gta doesn’t carry its weight G. Nor did the FI delve into everything.
Like how much numerous, countless infrastructure projects have cost tax payers
Over the very many years. The wetland canal, the 400 series, airports, serious subsidies to industry ( luring companies) , Hydro subsidies to the same, and on and on and on. Want more that FI didn't delve into? How much do Hydro plants cost? Be they coal, Nuclear or wind......And who do you think needs all that power???? Those areas of Ontario that are black or night, or that area you can see from the moon at night....let alone the day, when industry and more is truly humming.........Along with the lights, AC, bazillions of Computers and TVs.....
“If you build it, they will come”
And they have come. The GTA gets about 70% of all immigration, it gets companies, industry and commerce..... all things that have made the GTA a world class city, one of the wealthiest in Canada.........
Your job, your pension, your house and it’s market value, and far more...
Thanks to the tax payers of Ontario....and 325,000,000 debt. .............
How you can “explain” away that, and more importantly argue the GTA carries its weight when debt to gdp is 38%.......
your arguing the world is flat.
Now, if you want make a case that these days decades after the Welland has been built, the 401 (just the busiest Highway in NA, just the most important that sees oh so much commerce and money flow into "your" pocket), airports, and much more. That for every dollar it gets, it sends out more. "Who knows"
What is abundantly clear, it that the GTA is abundantly rich thanks to the tax payers of Ontario, all of them. Thanks to debt, and infratcure and tax breaks and subsidies to companies and much much much more. And Debt to GDP of 38% ( not enough income..gdp for all that debt) and wealth.......
"Trickle down" or out economics are BS....We have 60 years of stats to prove that.....Or if you want the coles notes
If Trickle down/Out worked...The wealth gap between the haves (Upper Middle class and beyond) and have nots (lower middle class and down) would be getting narrower...........Not wider
"Food for thought"
Kind of interesting reading through the middle pages drivel.
We have people like G, claiming to want meaningful discussion, wanting to offer differing viewpoints/perspectives, suggesting that if you don't swim with the current here like lemmings..................But then also attacks someone, who A) rarely visits anymore, and B) post even less because to a degree he's right. So brave of you G and Jaycee......
If you aren't a lemming swimming with the current.......Difference being, I won't put up with the children. Could less about "right" and "wrong".....We are entitled to our opinions and anyone that reads the TOS........ So its not about me being "right", its about my opinion, my perspective on A B or C. Don't agree it, don't see quite that way...No problem.....Express your opinion, don't reply, don't quote, and certainly don't go after someone, or their opinion...stick to yours.......If you decide to go after someone or their opinion as you have ( so mature of you both when you feel safe), don't cry when you don't like the answer.....Because I will defend my opinion, its mine.....
I never start crap, I will finish it...
Children here are humorous.
********
More food for thought...don't give a rats behind if anyone agrees or not. Express your opinion and that can be done without any trouble what-so-ever....
Ford campaigned on reducing waste, reducing bloat. He campaigned on doing so, without going after front line workers by finding inefficiencies. Translation, the bureaucracy. What is Toronto city council but the living breathing epitome of waste and inefficiency? Yet many are up in arms that he didn't campaign on it........Maybe, if the spoon fed, spoiled councillors and wannabes had accepted the legal right of the province to act........in the first place......He wouldn't have had to utilize the NWC..."funny that"...But for some reason people are up in arms, blaming Ford.....instead of city council and beurcrats who think and thought better.....
On the topic of the GTAs tax contributions. It is entirely possible the GTA ponies up somewhat more than it receives. But when debt to GDP is 38%, the inescapable truth is........no-one is carrying their weight. And it's only taken both left wing and right wing economist saying over and over and over. The province has to hold spending at the least, find savings even better......AND....raise revenue....
Curious how anyone can "argue" that the GTA carries it's weight when.........
But if we really want to venture down that rabbit hole and pissing match perhaps the question should be....Does the GTA contribute enough...given....all the tax breaks and subsidies companies and people have received over the very, many years, to lure industry and commerce and jobs......lots of jobs, lots of high paying jobs.....
Given the decades the people of Ontario have gone into substantial debt, paid to build it to accomplish the same........Turning it into one of the wealthiest cities in the country..........let alone the province.....
Not remotely
imo.