https://ontario-wind-resistance.org/...with-impunity/
Never hear this mentioned in the news do we ?
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https://ontario-wind-resistance.org/...with-impunity/
Never hear this mentioned in the news do we ?
http://www.lfpress.com/ur/story/1236858
Just more stuff residents of rural Ontario can be thankful for.
Yup....welcome to Chatham-Kent !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
There are a huge number in Bruce County south of Port Elgin. Right in the middle of one of the largest flyways in the province.
Looking at the Endangered Species Act, it says 9. (1) No person shall, (a) kill, harm, harass, capture or take a living member of a species that is listed on the Species at Risk in Ontario List as an extirpated, endangered or threatened species;
At no point does it state government can't. Funny that.
Futhermore, I think there is an exception in the Green Energy Act about endangered species. I guess it is ok to destroy an ecosystem to get more green power.
For many years we have had it driven into us just important the Oak Ridges Morraine is. It's only the life blood of area's north and south of its aquifers and more.
Like Chatham Kent, problems with ground water have already been detected.
Suppose feeding the beast and the wallets of many supersedes all that "save the environment stuff" billowing out of QP like so much hot gas.
https://windpowergrab.wordpress.com/...idges-moraine/
We hunt coyotes around these things....they seem to like being around the turbines. No doubt cleaning up the incidental kill!
This information has been known for at least 10 years when my wife was working in the wind farm industry in Eastern Ontario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter John
Now isn't that interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Ok let's look at the other side of the equation. How many animals have died from the coal plants we use to have, how much displacement has the hydro dams created. How about all the pollution that runs off the street and into Lake Ontario etc. What are you going to do with all the nuclear waste from the Bruce plant? I know a lot of you older right wingers hate progression but tough, deal with the fact that Green Energy is here forever.
More birds are killed by skyscrapers then wind turbines but I don't see a single member here bringing that up. Why are you not telling the cities to tear those down to protect the birds and wildlife?
Well its mostly (?) been proven that our air quality problems were caused by two things.
Traffic and pollution in TO and industry in the United States. So I would feel comfortable in suggesting everything prior to the GEA had minimal impact on the environment or wildlife.
Ontario has pretty much become the poster child and laughing stock of everywhere else, in how not to do things. And the prices being paid are very steep indeed, that start with people having them rammed down their throats, to financial and more. Maybe Im just an old geezer that's slightly right of centre, but something we old people have that young people dont, is
Wisdom
The kind of thing that can only be learned like its generally a good idea to dip your toes in freezer cold water before diving in, or "look before leaping'
A buddy of mine applied for a job with the wind companies here, to go around to each turbine and gather up the dead birds and bats...so they are obviously aware of the carnage !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Because skyscrapers are not subsidized directly out of my pocket. If every single kWh produced by the clusterfk that is the GEA was not exported at a massive loss I might feel differently. Instead every single kWh that been has produced by the windmills installed as part of the GEA has been completely surplus to our needs and we have had to pay the companies that produce this unnecessary power a massive premium and than pay again for an adjacent jurisdiction to take it off our hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
In case you don't believe it the numbers are here:
Electricity Imports/Exports:
http://www.ieso.ca/power-data/supply...ts-and-exports
Amount produced by type:
http://www.ieso.ca/power-data/supply...ted-generation
In every single year that has data the net excess produced is always more than all the electricity generated by wind - i.e. we don't need it.
Haha this could be fun.
Compare and contrast wind towers and glass towers.
Both kill lots of birds
Both steal from the peons and give to the rich.
Glass towers provide jobs for many, thousands andhundreds of thousands of them
Wind towers. Jobs are gone with wind, if they were ever really here
If your an urbanite, glass towers look nice and represent wealth aka "look how great we are".
If your a rural dweller, wind towers are blights on the landscape.
Green Energy may be future, but reality bites. Shame many forget about that thing called reality, nor did they have the wisdom to dip their toes, and the fact is, its not just birds getting killed by them.
JBen, I agree with most of what you said, but you don't really believe this do you ?
" So I would feel comfortable in suggesting everything prior to the GEA had minimal impact on the environment or wildlife."
I'm afraid Mother Earth had her share of problems before Dalton McGuilty came along.
are they building new ones right now?
How long do they last before they have to be taken down?
In a general sense yes Mb, she certainly does.
I was more thinking of how much damage our power producing plants had done. It's pretty much well established and proved that the issues around air quality were in fact from the States and traffic in TO. In effect the hot air on that was from QP. And if Im not mistaken the new tech for coal/gas is extremely good. Certainly far cheaper. Wind and solar may be the future but.................there's this thing called reality.
That is so irrelevant I cant believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
So you think that justifies putting up turbines somehow? Wow
Chatham-Kent numpties at city hall are allowing new projects every year. Now they have been proven to destroy water wells in the project areas.....nice.....eh!!Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Generally speaking when our generation found a problem they set out to solve it. Some can remember Sudbury of the fifties, the fish ladders that were built, the scrubbers that allowed us to burn coal with no pollution. There are even boilers out there now that can be fired using old tires that give no measurable pollution, yet when a wind farm location is chosen it will go in (or not) depending on politics, not ecology. When new hi rises are designed, a lot of effort goes into minimizing the bird kill and even new roads must justify their routes thru the bush but wind farms go in either areas of low human
density or places where the farmers can make the highest dollar returns on the KW.
Last summer when house shopping, we loosely considered area's around Orono/Bethany, on the Oak Ridges Morraine, for its proximity to 115 (and soon 407), Peterborough, 401 etc. Saw a couple places we liked enough to say "ok, we can see ourselves living here. Lets dig below the surface".
Then I found out about the Wind farms beyond the ridge line to the East, and those coming.
We bought on the West side of the Scugog river. By sometime in August, we could hear the construction and a couple days later way off in the distance. As the crow flies probably a good 5-10 miles. Somedays we can see the tops of 3 of them. A friend wasn't so "lucky". he didn't do his homework, bought right in there. A beautiful piece of property.....
Now surrounded by them. Doubt it will impact his resale value, the tsunami coming East will overpower anything and everything. When people are paying 50,000, 100,000 over for places that need a lot of work, or where wells are already having issues, whats an eye and ear sore...
But yep isn't it funny, how when theres enough $ and political will, blind eyes can be turned to anything.
"get er done" says QP, despite oh so much that should have slammed the brakes on oh so much. Be it envormental stuff like ground water and wells, be it bird strikes and threatened species, be it tens of thousands of rural residents against them.
Have to feed the beast and there's money to be made.
Wind turbines don't just kill from contact. If a bat get too close, they can die from barotrauma. While skyscrapers do kill birds, there can be preventative measures put in place to help the birds distinguish a skyscraper from open sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
There are several, that exempt/cover the butts of all 3 levels of government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Skyscrapers are not moving at close to 200mph either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
Nope. They are not. They are fairly immobile (they do tend to sway a bit).Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
This government decided to clean up our energy production and go green. Yet this very policy is resulting in the deaths of way too many birds and bats. Talk about a whole lot of hypocrisy.
They didn't clean anything up.
Someone made money.
Okay then, lets take down those turbines and lets start putting up new nuclear reactors. Then for the next million years you can deal with the waste and that eye sore. Southern Ontario has a energy need, do you think it appears out of no where? Plus the financial benefit to the farms who can still farm the land are now making end meet.
Southern Ontario does not have an energy need - You are missing the point. We could take every existing windmill offline and we would still have an excess of generating capacity. The existing wind capacity and certainly any new capacity is not needed now or for a long time into the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
The demand in ontario is stagnant or even less than 20 to 25 years ago. This is partly from conservation but mostly because manufacturing has left the province because the rates are the highest in North America. This is not going to change any time soon.
In fact last year we set a record for the lowest demand since they starting tracking historical trends in 2002. All the peak demand records for Ontario were set more than a decade ago:
http://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand...torical-demand
It is also a fact that we are producing more energy than is required, AND WE ARE PAYING THE U.S TO TAKE IT OFF OUR HANDS .Quote:
In fact last year we set a record for the lowest demand since they starting tracking historical trends in 2002. All the peak demand records for Ontario were set more than a decade ago:
Unbelievable the stupidity of our Prov. Gov.
AND that doesn't even cover the added stupidity of 60 plus cops making 100K plus and on suspension for the year 2016.......you just can't make up this stupid chit.............Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
MADE THE SUNSHINE LIST AND DIDN'T WORK A DAY.................
Sounds like you have been drinking the coolade !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
Sounds like you have been drinking the coolade !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
Tell that to the people around here that can't use their well water. The landowners that have turbines are all under a gag clause. Their neighbours now have black well water. Filtration systems cannot keep up with the crap in their water, with filters being replaced almost daily !!!
Check out page 15 from the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers. (the engineers of this province that our government ignores)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
Titled Why Will Emissions Double as We Add Wind and Solar Plants ?
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.ospe.on...Elec_Dilem.pdf
As for the farmers, the only farmers around here who've signed the gag orders and sold out their neighbors to big wind own massive amounts of land and have never had trouble making ends meet in the first place.
How long till they rust and fall down.
How long do they last?
Supposed to have a 20 year operational life.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers
Bonkers,Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
Lowbanksarcher beat me to it. If you look at his link on the page he specified, it clearly states because wind and solar power generation is so unreliable, they require a flexible backup power generation source if demand begins to exceed production with nuclear being too inflexible to be a reasonable backup. So if we have to build power generators to act as a backup power source, why not just build regular coal or LPG power generation plants to supply our power. Yes, emissions are a concern so legislate emission caps for coal production. The technology is out there to treat off-gas. If the technology isn't enough, then you can spend capital to develop the technology.
The government's job in the energy portfolio is to provide reliable and inexpensive energy. They have badly mangled that job.
Dyth
Lets ignore for the purposes of this thread all the financial cost that are well documented, and only start with two separate Auditor Generals ripping the Liberals and GEA to shreds.
For those who live under their shadows
For everyone paying absurd rates and deliveries excluding those who live in um Peterborough or anywhere else deemed "high density". Which is asinine given its cities that draw the most.........by far. Maybe if it was cities paying the much higher rates and delivery charges as it should be..........things would be a little different.
etc
etc
Not sure how bad the situation in Chatham Kent is with respect to well water, but know its bad. PS if its really bad......what will that do to re-sale value........
You should be concerned about this Bonkers given you live within the affected area. The Oak Ridges Morraine might just be one of the single most important environmentally sensitive area's in the entire province! You know what they say about "stuff" rolling downhill, and the Morraine feeds everything!
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...l_hearing.html
http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story...rbine-project/
Oh and have we noticed how many birds and bats they kill?
There are sooooo many reasons to be irate and more, it surprises anyone could even remotely be in favour, or for that matter a "champion"
given so many things.
In 20 years I hope they are all gone.
Maybe . Germany and other European countries are abandoning wind mills because the cost return on what they produce is a joke. We shall see if the Government of the day will come to the same conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen
I also wonder given Bonker's sarcastic statement about tearing down the turbines and replacing it with nuclear how he feels that now we are four years without coal power production and we rely more heavily on nuclear now than we did when we had coal powered plants.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
No doubt the wind turbines and the Liberal management of the electricity file have been a ridiculous circus, but I suspect Bonkers point was that just about every form of energy generation has its costs and impacts. I don't see wind being viable until we develop technology for energy storage on a mass scale.
We've just had 4 turbines installed across the highway, not enough people here seemed motivated to oppose them until they were right in our face and by then its obviously far too late. Pretty hopeless to fight a government that uses YOUR tax dollars against you anyway I suppose.
Rick: what is the link between turbines and ruining water wells ?
Google water wells firstQuote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Ground vibration can cause compaction of the aquifer and/or stir up fine sediment.
Do you believe it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
I'm not a geoscientist but wouldn't anyone living within a reasonable distance of a rail line have the same issue ?
Not a dirt engineer either but as I understand it the frequency of the vibrations is different than that caused by trains or other sources. Additionally it seems to be more common with turbine bases that are built on pilings as opposed to conventional spread footings. The pilings extend much deeper and seem to transmit the vibrational energy more efficiently. Trains as well do not cause vibrations in the same area for hours and sometimes days on end. The extended period of application prevents the energy from dissipating and it can set up a harmonic response like you sometimes see on windy days with high tension wires. In the case of wires the harmonic builds energy and causes the wires to dance sometimes to the point of failure. Simplified analogy is a kid on a swing being pushed - push them once and they don't move too much and come to rest pretty quickly - push them for an extended period and not only will they move faster and higher but they will reach a steady state of movement that will last as long as you keep pushing.
Video below shows an extreme example of harmonic resonance when a bridge over the Tacoma Narrows failed due to wind energy transfer that was unable to dissipate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw
I haven't looked at it yet, but here is the newest version of that presentation:Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
https://www.ospe.on.ca/public/docume...a-Apr-2017.pdf