What the hell is going on with society? Prayers go out to all the people involved in this massacre. I have a feeling this will have a far reaching effect on all gun owners much like the Polytechnique massacre in Montreal.
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What the hell is going on with society? Prayers go out to all the people involved in this massacre. I have a feeling this will have a far reaching effect on all gun owners much like the Polytechnique massacre in Montreal.
Once again a sad example of how the world is screwed up. My guess is this is an extremist group. Que the usual chicken littles and the liberals will attack peaceful law abiding gun owners instead. The AK47 is already a prohibited weapon isn't it? This will puff up the coming gun control committee and Goodale. Non of which will solve the problem or help those poor people who were massacred.
...and a number of people also their lives ( 6 dead and 8 wounded). They were people like you and me, sons,daughters , etc...
I can't imagine what their family and friends are going through right now. I think that's a little more important than the public's or government's possible actions regarding firearms.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/parl...ment-1.3955841
Here's another link with more information. Even more people hurt than the original report.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hospita...ting-1.3262728
This is probably the most hippy left thing I've ever said but one thing that makes me proud to be Canadian is the religious freedom we all have, be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. It's brutal that this has happened, sickening that it happened here, but it's been amazing to see how Canadians of all political sides and religions are showing support to those effected by this crime and to the Muslim community. Whoever you believe in and pray to we are all here together. I have traveled a lot and it's always a good feeling to know that I live in a country that yes we have we don't all agree on and we can all argue politics and policy til we are blue in the face, but we are safe and free to believe in what we choose to believe in and to worship without fear.
I hope this doesn't change our already overly strong gun laws, and I hope people stop the us and them mentality that exists.
They said it "looked like an AK-47" could be an AK, could be an SKS, could be a lot of things.
This is so sad, exciting of violence to invoke terror is terrorism no matter who commits it or who it targets, no matter what the motive this was a horrible event perpetrated by horrible people during one of the most solemn times.
This is a sad day for Canada
The new normal now when the massacres happen is for politicians to "Tweet" how sorry they are. If the body count is high enough they might even express.......outrage. Yup, that's going to fix the problem. Everybody tweeted. All good now.
Such a sad state of affairs that social media replaces actual empathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
I am so glad that this is a very rare occurrence here, not that it is ok, it is not.
i was born and raised in St-Foy where this happened, have family and friends who live minutes from the massacre. It's time to reverse this movement. Stuff like this is why Trump got elected. Not saying he isn't an idiot but this is big part of why he got elected leader of the free world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
The hate needs to stop, all of it, just live and let live. People are just trying to make the lives of their children better than they had, this is a 99.9% reality, it is the 0.1% on all sides that screw up the whole thing. That 0.1% needs to go so the rest of us can live in peace, be is Christian, Athiest, Muslim, Catholic, Aboriginal, Jew, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by terrym
Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
OK guys.
Your splinter discussion could be hived off into another thread, thanks JoePa and Skypilot for effectively hijacking things.
Update on the situation at hand. One suspect, one witness apparently.
I just saw that too, I think we all need to cool down and let the investigation come out first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Sorry for helping the tangent.
I have been hearing reported foreign origin and local origin wrt to the two involved. I'll hold the foreign country until official publication one way or the other.
This is a deplorable act. This mosque was also targeted by someone placing a pig's head at the entrance.
I would define a terrorist attack as a calculated use of violence against civilians in order to attain a goal which is political/religious/ideological in nature by instilling fear/coercion/intimidation. I would argue that this is a terrorist attack even without having the shooter's motive known. The shooter targeted the people inside a mosque during Ramadan. He has made a point to the Muslims in that mosque that they should live in fear (which will have far reaching reverberations across the country). If this was an Arab person attacking a Catholic Church during Lent, would people not be labeling it a terrorist attack? Both actions must be tested using the same litmus test.
They now are saying that it is one suspect and one witness, CBC has pulled the names but the one person who was stopped on the bridge getting out of dodge was a a quebec born francophone, we shall see when they officially release the name.Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Yes, the public reporting has had the incorrect names. Or at least different from the names and origins I heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
True, we shall see what the official word is, I hope.
If it is truly an AK47, it would take only a few seconds to determine that, the factory and country from the fire selector marks and the factory marks on the upper and lower.
I find it odd that the type of rifle used hasn't been identified. The fact that it hasn't, almost suggests that it could be a prohib like the AK47, or 74. Subject to a secondary investigation as to how it was procured, and likely suspect questioning and follow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Then again, not much data to go on either....
Pretty easy for a cop, just look at the areas I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Maybe they have and simply are keeping the info close. It would be a legal liability to misidentify the murder weapon. That mistake would permeates all the way thru the investigation to the autopsy Mode of and Cause of Death.
My money is they know, they just rightfully won't release that info early into an investigation.
I just spoke with my brother in St-Foy and the word now is it was one "white guy" who did the shooting. He lives about 3 blocks from University Laval and the Police went through a house at the top of his street. Lots of students in his neighbourhood.
If both rifles are AK 47 and full auto, they would be pre 1986 if from US and easy to trace or if a plain semi AKs from the US, relatively easy to trace.
I think the "AK" thing could simple be that it looked mean, most of that AK talk has been removed from the sites, the media may have had their butts kicked for assuming too many things as truths right out of the gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
The police are in control now along with Crown counsel so from here on out it will be cut and dried and just slow forensic work and investigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dythbringer
In this case, if the firearms are from the US, and with readable serial, Importer ID, etc., it will take about 24 hours if placed as top priority. Otherwise at least a week.
That only gets to the original purchaser.
"François Deschamps, a member of an online group welcoming Syrian refugees to Quebec, told Le Soleil that he recognized Bissonnette’s photo as an anti-immigrant far-right “troll.”
He acted like a troll. He attacked the rights of women too.”
According to Bisonnette’s Facebook page, which has been taken down, his “likes” include the leader of France’s far right party Marine Le Pen, critics of Islam Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the Israeli Defense Forces, and Donald J. Trump. However he also “likes” the NDP and former leader Jack Layton." quote
https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpre...0&h=365&crop=1
A police officer looks for evidence under a car in the area of a Quebec City mosque on Monday, January 30, 2017.
THE CANADIAN PRESS/Paul Chiasson
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I have tutored teens on Yahoo for maybe 12 years. Only in the last 2-3 years have I had to deal with such racism etc on line. Why it is getting so much worse I haven't figured out.
Unfortunately it happens. Cops are usually tight lipped about what they saw in the car's backseat however the Press simply asks the tow truck driver that tows the car and he says there were two AKs in the back seat along with handguns in the car just before the Cops let him leave with the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
That is how it starts......sometimes.
Regardless of the "motive," slaughtering people at worship is intolerable.
Unlikely if he was known to police as a radical that he was unknown to local radicals and militants.
Scary how fast the media releases names, number of suspects and other vital information that turns out to be completely false. They reported the names of two suspects, then later find out one of the named may have been a witness! I realize it's a race to get the news out and be the first to break a story but in their haste seem to fire out a lot of b.s. that can be misleading.
I am very saddened by this and even more so that it happened in Canada. My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the victims, those that had to live through it and the community that has been shaken by this terrible act.
I agree wholeheartedly that the hate and the us vs them mentality has to stop. In the end we are all so much the same, in this case unfortunately so...
I did my best to separate it into two threads but likely bungled a couple of posts so please let me know if you think one of your posts was misplaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
[QUOTE=Fox;1014072]The hate needs to stop, all of it, just live and let live. People are just trying to make the lives of their children better than they had, this is a 99.9% reality, it is the 0.1% on all sides that screw up the whole thing. That 0.1% needs to go so the rest of us can live in peace, be is Christian, Athiest, Muslim, Catholic, Aboriginal, Jew, etc.[
I'll second that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Latest news on CBC...handgun shooting.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...file-1.3959581
He used his own registered handguns? There's one for the books. Has anyone noticed that the common denominator in every one of occurrences like this,there were people close to the offender who knew they were dealing with serious mental health issues and said and did nothing? Pick any one of these incidents,anywhere,from Dawson College to Sandy Hook. It's really amazing that if someone had have said something,anything,to a family doctor or the local Police.these incidents may have been entirely preventable.Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
Criminals are not typically known for their IQ., wisdom and deep philosophical thoughts.
Serious mental health issues? I missed that in the article.
Beg to differ Skypilot.
Criminals are often very intelligent and unlike many others driven, driven to succeed. At the extreme end, this is evidenced by organized crime. And the fact is, they usually have the upper hand. By that I mean, despite all the resources at LEOs disposal ( $$, Technology, Man Power, "Harvard" grads working for them). LEO can't take them down. How long and how many resources did it take to take down.
Cappone
Bin Ladin
Cappo
So many others that could be named..................
Even here in Ontario, we have gangs that continually and consistently outfox leo despite LEOs huge advantages. On the other end ( the low end), your garden variety con man, can go for years fleecing high brows nine ways to sunday.
I'd say "criminals are often" vs "criminals are not typically" is the fulcrum.
I would say that the smaller percentage of high level criminals have higher quality accomplices and on staff counselors.
Most high level criminals(civilian organized and governmental)wouldn't commit murder using a handgun with their own name on it.
I think when someone sets out to commit a massacre like this they are also intending on either being killed on the spot or dieing in prison. I doubt they care about anything at that point.
The trouble is, no one has explored the mental illness angle yet, MSM finds it easier to use "terrorist" or "Trump supporting, right wing".Quote:
Originally Posted by skypilot
Like Jben, I have to disagree with your assessment however. Look up the terms sociopath, and psychopath. The majority of criminals who's behavior could be described as such, often fall in the higher IQ category.
True, his mental state and his statements will help determine if there is a terrorist component and that hasn't been revealed yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebulldog
Most common criminals simply don't indicate high levels of intelligence in my experience. Sure, there are niche crimes were criminals indicate high levels of thought, reasoning, etc. but the common criminal just doesn't indicate high levels of thought.
When they are successful, they simply tend to repeat that or duplicate that success without much strategic planning.
Where I have seen higher levels of intelligence, reasoning and thought is, as one would expect, towards higher types of sophisticated crime and is reflected in our clearance rates or at least in the man hours required to close. Things like serial murder, financial crimes and so on come to mind. Those crimes are generally fewer than common crime which is done generally by less intelligent.
Lol. One of my favourite sayings here at the Courthouse:
"You never see the smart ones here"
Heard them talking about this on 680 this morning and they said the shooter was a hunter.....not sure what that has to do with anything.
gofundme.com raised almost 40000$ to support victim's families