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This is another that is very scary Link;http://ecowatch.com/2015/01/23/healt...santo-roundup/
The big Chemical Co's IE. Monsanto, are slowly causing us our health problems , all in favour of the almighty dollar in the short term , not thinking about our future and our children's futures.
CEO won't drink a glass of the stuff.... Enough said.
World Health Organization thinks its safe if used according to directions.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015...r-roundup.html
The problem is that the public does not have any access to the research and that we are eating food that the government is not required to inform us that it is GE or GMO and it's covered in roundup. Eat locally farmed food people. Stay away from big retailer produce. If it were truly healthy they would be labelling it and showing us research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon
Round Up is used by most farmers even on locally grown crops. That's why farmers spot spray with Round Up.
Non GMO plants cannot withstand the direct application of roundup. It is a non specific herbicide. Ask a niagara farmer what it's like to farm in the vicinity of a GMO cornfield he will tell you what his crop losses look like when GMO fields are sprayed with roundup and the wind is blowing the wrong way.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Don't forget that Monsanto is the company that also invented that dreadfull killer "Agent Orange ".
They were born decades after American forces had sprayed the herbicide dioxin Agent Orange in South Vietnam, but some children living in the region today continue to suffer from the horrifying effects of the chemical.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3hDvx30mj
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What I am getting at is that we do not know what is going to happen generations down the road from the effects of these [wonder chemicals ? ]
Everything in the stores is GMO, without GMO we would not survive. Deer are GMO as they eat GMO, nothing we have to eat is original.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerjohn
That is a very fine opinion on your part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
The article is from a non-science based website.
The first line where they link Glyphosate to DDT completely discredits all they say after.
You can't compare Herbicides to Insecticides.
Doing so clearly shows your anti chemical bias.
Anything you say after is suspect BU11$h!ola.
For all people like to crap on Monsanto - sure they are in the business to make money... but most of their technology advances are geared towards using less chemicals and less toxic ones. More technology using less chemicals.
One real good example of this is neonics. Instead of spraying insecticides a few times a year, they just treat the seeds with an insect specific toxin that gets absorbed into the and only affects insects that eat the plants. Seems like a good idea - but there are many that would prefer we have them go back to spraying insecticides.
And what Monsanto is doing today is a world apart from DDT and agent orange. If anyone feels a need to bring that into the discussion - well it won't be a very intelligent discussion.
For those of you that have been asleep for the past 75 years, the days of mass produced non-GMO, no-chemical use crops ended early in the post WW2 years, and there's no turning back the clock. Forwards is the only direction we can go.
I wonder how local, or organic farmers are supposed to feed the province, country or world. And even if we tried on a tiny, wee small scale, how much water, land...what it would cost the consumer and more.
Sometimes wonder when people will realize that we live in an imperfect world and that Utopia does not and will never exist and the only option is workable, pratical solutions and not pie in the sky.
And when we will realize that if we truly want to save the world, we will all line up and get snipped.
I think this is a good post. You can generally tell by the title saying "Monsanto's Roundup" rather than just "Roundup"; that this probably comes from the Monsanto hating crowd and they're pretty reckless with their "science".Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
For comparison, lets bring in another " Wonder Drug ".
Lipitor, everyone has heard of it and perhaps many are using it , prescribed by your Doctor.
Lipitor the drug/chemical that was the highest selling prescription drug at the time till the patent ran out [ 1985 till 2011] it made billions for Phizer Pharmaceuticals.
Doctors were prescribing it left ,right , and center till many adverse effects were harming peoples health and lately it made the National News again , TV. Radio and the newspapers.
Lipitor is directly connected with Type 2 Diabetes in women, now there is a multi million dollar class action lawsuit initiated against Phizer Pharmaceuticals .
This has been brought to a head because it involves us humans directly, but is just another case where a chemical was DEEMED SAFE by the Food and DRUG Administration , and after many years of use and studies, has been found to have very sever consequences involving our health.
I still have serious doubts as to Who Do You Believe ? the big drug/chemical co.'s that are pushing for the big dollar or the people that are doing the research and are finding that these wonder drugs/chemicals are causing serious harm to the environment and consequently to us the final recipient.
Maybe for insecticide use this is true, but the most common GMO crops used today are corn and soy and are "round up ready" allowing massive spraying of the herbicide. I'm pretty sure glyphosate use is going up overall these days... They are not designed for insect resistance...Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
As for mass produced chemical crops after WW2 this may be true, but mass produced GMO is very recent, less than 20 yrs. It has not been around since WW2. Before there were hybrid seeds and special breeding programs, but not inserting foreign genes from another organism into the DNA code in a lab, this is extremely new and potentially unknown technology that many countries have banned to date... We have been selective breeding for 1000's of years, GMO is very recent and definately not the same, although some try and say it is!
They are all GMO, if you modify them over time by selective breeding or modify them in a lab it makes no difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by intothedeep
I am aware of how round up works and have a pesticide applicator license for the last 30 years. Round Up ready seed does not require spraying during the growing season. I have spot sprayed many hundreds of acres using an IPM Integrated Pest Mnagement approach on planting untreated seed during the growing period. IPM is the best method used to use much less chemicals if any using alternative farming methods to control weeds and plant pest.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerjohn
I respectfully disagree Mr Fox:). GMO sticks genes from other organisms/speacies into the plant or animal. It can be from a bacteria, or an animal like a fish and they stick it in... Selective breeding just chooses traits they want and breed or choose plants that have those traits. Huge difference, but again the biotech companies would like you to believe it makes no difference... But all the banning world wide doesn't agree:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
They have spent millions of dollars defeating labeling laws like in California and now federally, if they have such confidence in the product why go to those extremes?
I'm glad you told me you are a pesticide guy. Now I have a million questions yellow. I have a garden centre and we sell locally grown produce from niagara and southwestern Ontario. I am asked questions about pesticide use and organic designation all the time so I am always asking questions. If I may? What is an ipm? And in your knowledge is it widely used on food crops. I know that many growers of ornamental plant have opted for bio controls and they seem to be quite happy with the results so far. Thanks. J.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog
Ipm is "integrated pest message" in a nut she'll it's a scientific calculation of when to spray.. done by ratios of bugs per x (area) keeps spray use to a minimum and keeps costs down. All the farmers in the marsh here where I live practice this. Dropped spray down from once a week to sometimes a month+
I would strongly encourage you to become a member of Landscape Ontario and take full advantage of the programs they offer. IPM designation is one of the many courses and designations they offer. I worked in the Agriculture, Horticulture Industry for most of my life in all aspects of hard and soft landscaping before landing a position with a number of Municipalities as Chief Horticulturist , Maintenance Technician and Property Manager. I encourage Bio where it works but sometimes a stronger product is needed when used correctly. An example was the creation of a 25 acre soccer field I was asked to be involved with from start to finish and maintenance schedule. The land was cleared, leveled ,correct slope for soccer pitch as well as a pond for irrigating. I took into consideration, soil type (sandy loam )and plant pest, diseases, native weeds. I was in a unique situation having much experience(training) with turf grass species and greenhouse management liquid fertilizer injection. The grass seed mixture I had made up was a drought tolerant and disease resistant fescue grass seed. I chose an endophyte enhanced fescue grass seed that is resistant to white crubs that ravage most lawns that are grown in sandy soil. So long story short after a couple of years the grass seed mixture grew extremely well with a liquid fertilizer being injected into the irrigation system watering the soccer field. The third year white crubs did appear in the majority of the lawns in that municipality i was working for but the soccer field was not affected because of the endophyte enhanced grass seed. If I had not used this grass seed mixture then the entire soccer field would have to be treated with a very potent chemical at a huge cost to tax payers.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerjohn
I have not found a good cost effective Organic base selective herbicide sold off the shelf at garden centres, Home Depot, TSC etc. only Weed B Gone . I have done test plots with this product many times before the pesticide ban was enforced with very poor results. It does not even come close to such excellent products as Par 3. Large scale application such as a 25 acre soccer field using Weed B Gone would be in the $20,000.00 range but using a product such as Par 3 would cost in $2,600.00 range. Big difference ! Weed B Gone multiple applications are needed to possibly rid all broadleaf weeds. Par 3 usually one application does the trick.
Yes an IPM approach can be used on food crops but it takes allot of work gaining the knowledge and hands on experience needed to identify plant pest and weeds and organic solutions keeping cost in check and amount of applications needed.. Most food crop growers will use what works and opt for the sure thing ,chemical pesticides/herbicides most cost effective(spray application).
An organic soap base products work well on aphids, leaf hoppers and other sucking and chewing insects because these soaps are not harmful to the environment or ecosystem. I would choose this organic soap application rather than chemical application in this scenario . Having this organic/ chemical knowledge puts you in a better position deciding whats the best solution and less impact on the environment.
So the more knowledge you and your staff have at the garden centre the better for your business and it's reputation. I would not sell an organic product without knowing it truly is effective. Not many of them work well compared to the now banned chemical products that were once sold to homeowners. Insect traps are good such as the sticky traps but only on a very small scale in ones home.
The negative effects of Lipitor are no secret and people taking it are (or should be) advised of them by the doctor prescribing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
Many, many people take Lipitor in spite of these because to them, its positive benefits in dealing with a severe and concrete problem outweigh the "possible" negative side effects.
Are we blaming the pharma cos now because they are unable to produce a drug with no side effects. The medical world didn't advance to where it is today by waiting until drugs are "perfect" before they are approved. The assertion that they should - well, I just don't know what to say about that.
Do we just abandon medical treatment, and if people get sick, let them die - after all, that's the most "natural" thing to do, and it presents zero risk.
Did you forget that agent orange was used right here in Ontario ,approved by our Gov.Quote:
And what Monsanto is doing today is a world apart from DDT and agent orange. If anyone feels a need to bring that into the discussion - well it won't be a very intelligent discussion.
Hydro, road and forestry workers in Ontario were exposed to Agent Orange — the same weed-killing, disease-causing chemical used during the Vietnam War — in some cases by levels 700 times what is considered safe, a government-commissioned report confirms.
Agent Orange chemical exposure left Ontario workers prone to disease: study Link;http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ase_study.html
I think its use was discontinued about 45 years ago.....so what I said "And what Monsanto is doing today is a world apart from DDT and agent orange. If anyone feels a need to bring that into the discussion - well it won't be a very intelligent discussion."Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycee
I'm done here.
Yellowdog - I appreciate reading your (what I consider) unbiased and knowledgable view of the GMO issue. As is most often the case, well intentioned and uniformed people love to jump on an environmental bandwagon - not aware of important mitigating circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
People should start questioning, reading more about all these chemicals that we are being introduced to , studies are done but very few are long term studies and we do not know their effects down the road.
Here is another wonder drug, remember VIOXX another wonder cure for arthritis and associated pain.
It was taken off the market because people were dying of heart attacks that it caused, up to 60,000 people died as a result of using it.
[By Dr. Mercola
What would you say if you knew someone had killed 60,000 people? Would you call it a felony of the worst kind, times 60,000? If you totaled up the value of all those lives in criminal court, what would you say they're worth? ]
Here is the link;By Dr. MercolaWhat would you say if you knew someone had killed 60,000 people? Would you call it a felony of the worst kind, times 60,000? If you totaled up the value of all those lives in criminal court, what would you say they're worth?http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...gs-unsafe.aspx
Yellow thank you for your tremendous post. I really appreciate it. Lots of great info. All we are allowed on our shelves at my store is safers now and repeated applications are not in the wheelhouse for many of my customers. I'm in a pretty well heeled neighbourhood and most would not risk breaking a manicured fingernail to even open the spray bottle. I deal extensively with those in the landscape trade and they have their hands tied. The best that they can do for lawns is to just get an early jump on spring overseeding and hope that the weather cooperates. Thanks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow dog