Laser Eye Surgery - Pros/Cons for hunters

Hey all,

My work just circulated a notice that our group benefits provider is offering a 3 month promotion for increased discounts/coverage on Laser Eye Surgery.

What i'm looking for here, is feedback from anyone who's had the procedure (or similar procedures) or stories of hunters you know about the less discussed results and side effects, particularly for folks who hunt or do lots outdoors.

Obviously, i'd like to be free of the PITA that glasses are. I'd like to be able to put on atv/motorcycle helmets easily, i'd like to be able to put on my turkey hunting facemask without fighting with the damn glasses every time, i'd like to be able to wear a chainsaw helmet & earmuffs without crushing arms of glasses into the side of my head and getting a headache. You get the picture.

However, I've heard that there are side affects that often effect outdoors people more than the typical patient.

Things like:

• Messed up depth of field - makes focusing down rear sight, front sight & target very difficult
• Constant tearing/eye leaking from wind, even just soft steady breezes
• Often very poor/blurry/foggy vision in dawn/dusk light
• Severe glare and 'spots' in direct sunlight

If you've got any info or experience to share, i'd appreciate hearing it!

Geeze Mott , you falling apart ? Cant hear ,sciatica , cant see ? How old are you again.LOL. Just funning with ya. The people I know that have had the laser surgery say they should of done it sooner but none of them are hunters so that's likely not much help. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

Geeze Mott , you falling apart ? Cant hear ,sciatica , cant see ? How old are you again.LOL. Just funning with ya. The people I know that have had the laser surgery say they should of done it sooner but none of them are hunters so that's likely not much help. Good luck.

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lol
I'm a 35 yr old trapped in a 75 yr old's body. Lots of idiotic mistakes in my youth (who really jumps out of trees and off roofs in a 10 year competition with a buddy to see who can make it the furthest without breaking something?) and working labour positions without proper protections, processes or techniques.

I'm paying for it all now.

Wife is not a hunter. She does shoot with me trap, rifle, handgun. She does a lot of photography and spends a lot od time hiking and outdoors. She got it done. I went down with her and drove her home. After that no glasses except at night specifically when it's wet or when she is tired at night. I think the wet was from the glare. She has had it for twelve years and the prescription she has for her night glasses is the last one before she would be wearing straight glass. I think there is maybe a placebo effect. She wishes she got it done sooner. No complaints on atv snowmobile or boat with wind in her eyes.

She didn't cheap out and went to some place downtown Toronto Bochner. Pain to drive to but worth it to her. She is an advocate for the procedure and place now. I watched the procedure on TV outside the room. Amazing to see.

Good luck. I think you will enjoy it. Good to hear some companies are offering that benefit.

Mrs FW had laser surgery as have some friends and some of my coworkers. None of whom are hunters. I have considered it but....I have other places to spend my cash. But I understand the PITA that is glasses.

Soome friends who had the surgery long ago get "halos" during night driving, night vision. This is caused from the laser sculpting ending abruptly at the edge of the part of the cornea it is resculpting. As your pupils dilate (iris opens) in low light it may open beyond this edge, this causes refraction of the light (think particularly of oncoming headlights) which causes a "halo" effect. I believe this a thing of the past.

Mrs. FW had hers done 6 or 7 years ago she had the "advanced wave front" lasik done. In this procedure they scan the patients eyes and the program is adjusted for all anomalies (aberrations) it finds, it creates a custom just for you program for the laser, it also does a better job "feathering" (my words) the edge of the burn area to avoid halos.

Mrs FW finds the only negative being the extremes of light and dark. She finds sunny days very bright and cannot go long without sunglasses (which you should have anyway to protect your eyes). She also finds night very dark, and doesn't like driving my car with tinted windows at night at she finds it way too dark. No halos but finds night very dark.

No blurriness, still better than 20/20.

She doesn't hunt or shoot so I can't comment on looking down the sights.

I had PRK done 15 years ago. Vision still 20/20. I don't even notice the halos anymore and the dry eyes isn't very bad for me.

Things like:

• Messed up depth of field - makes focusing down rear sight, front sight & target very difficult
• Constant tearing/eye leaking from wind, even just soft steady breezes
• Often very poor/blurry/foggy vision in dawn/dusk light
• Severe glare and 'spots' in direct sunlight

If you've got any info or experience to share, i'd appreciate hearing it![/QUOTE]

I've never had the surgery but suffer and have everything that you mentioned above... I think I need help

I had PRK done about 3 years ago. My vision is pretty good. I don't suffer from dry eyes no more than I did before the surgery. If my eyes are dry though, a bit of eye drops 2 nights in a row and all is fixed (but I used to do this before the op anyhow). Imagine being able to see better than the average person. I can hit my golf ball down the fairway and track it no problem, when most others have lost sight of it. That should help for hunting.

My only issue is at night. There is some halos, but nothing serious. Red lights seem to be the worst (car brake lights). But I don't even notice it anymore. The other issue is contrast. Under a moonlight, it's like things are a little more dim, but nothing to the extent where it impairs me.

I'd have the surgery all over again if I had to. No more fogging up, wet glasses, or dry contacts. No more waking up and can't see the clock beside me. No more worrying about losing a contact lens while swimming. No more carrying contacts on trips, or glasses to lose. It is SOOOO easy now.

I under stand that Tafour?? is the best in Windsor. Lots of guys from work had it done a few had side affects and wished ,they never had it done.The majority had fantastic results. My self I'm not a good candidate for the surgery,but Tafour was the specialist that took care of the shingles in my eye.

My dad had his done about 10 years ago now and he is very happy with it ,no more glasses ,I would highly recommend it ,,It is very scary to go thru with but well worth it ,,Dutch

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Hey all,

My work just circulated a notice that our group benefits provider is offering a 3 month promotion for increased discounts/coverage on Laser Eye Surgery.

What i'm looking for here, is feedback from anyone who's had the procedure (or similar procedures) or stories of hunters you know about the less discussed results and side effects, particularly for folks who hunt or do lots outdoors.

Obviously, i'd like to be free of the PITA that glasses are. I'd like to be able to put on atv/motorcycle helmets easily, i'd like to be able to put on my turkey hunting facemask without fighting with the damn glasses every time, i'd like to be able to wear a chainsaw helmet & earmuffs without crushing arms of glasses into the side of my head and getting a headache. You get the picture.

However, I've heard that there are side affects that often effect outdoors people more than the typical patient.

Things like:

• Messed up depth of field - makes focusing down rear sight, front sight & target very difficult
• Constant tearing/eye leaking from wind, even just soft steady breezes
• Often very poor/blurry/foggy vision in dawn/dusk light
• Severe glare and 'spots' in direct sunlight

If you've got any info or experience to share, i'd appreciate hearing it!

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I had Lasik done in 2005 in Mississauga by Lasik MD.

No issues whatsoever, nor with iron sights or night vision.

I do have a pair of glasses that I occasionally use when I've been getting too much screen time eg contracts at work, video games etc. But the optometrist said I have a slight astigmatism, and it's because my one eye gets tired.....I don't need them except once in a blue moon.

Otherwise I paid $1800 for both eyes plus $400 for lifetime vision care.....I'd pay it again tomorrow if I had to.

I had it done 20 years ago. I have the halo effect but nothing other than that, and it doesn't really bother me too much anymore. I love not having to mess around with glasses or contacts anymore. No hunting related issues at all

No personal experience, although everyone I've talked to in the last couple years say that most of the halo effect has been eliminated along with using iron sights. The one fellow is a bona fide sharp shooter and doesn't wear glasses other than sun glasses in bright sun. I only need the surgery for close up, 2-3 feet and I have problems with iron sights now. I'm just too chicken to have someone screwing with my eyes.

Man... i was really expecting a couple horror stories, or at least one or two semi-negative responses, to help talk me out of this pretty expensive undertaking.

But all i'm hearing from anyone is that it's great and i shouldn't put it off if i can help it.

I was hoping to spend those funds on motorcycle insurance this year... but it looks like i'm getting new eyes instead.

Thanks for all the feedback.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Man... i was really expecting a couple horror stories, or at least one or two semi-negative responses, to help talk me out of this pretty expensive undertaking.

But all i'm hearing from anyone is that it's great and i shouldn't put it off if i can help it.

I was hoping to spend those funds on motorcycle insurance this year... but it looks like i'm getting new eyes instead.

Thanks for all the feedback.

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Do it. Period, full stop. You will never regret it.

I had it done 12 years ago.
Only issues is I get dry eyes if hot air is circulated in my direction. Example : Vents directed towards me in a car or sitting under a ceiling vent in the office.

Otherwise, never had any issue. Cant imagine wearing glasses again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Man... i was really expecting a couple horror stories, or at least one or two semi-negative responses, to help talk me out of this pretty expensive undertaking.

But all i'm hearing from anyone is that it's great and i shouldn't put it off if i can help it.

I was hoping to spend those funds on motorcycle insurance this year... but it looks like i'm getting new eyes instead.

Thanks for all the feedback.

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I read this thread with great interest as I am also on the edge. I worry so much about screwing up my vision... but as you said the responses are almost all positive.

Can you please post back when you have the surgery done and how it went, I would appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by scarkner

I read this thread with great interest as I am also on the edge. I worry so much about screwing up my vision... but as you said the responses are almost all positive.

Can you please post back when you have the surgery done and how it went, I would appreciate it!

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When my wife had hers done she sat up after the, zap, zap, smell of burnt flesh, and was able to see me cross the room (where I was standing outside a picture window watching it close up on the TV monitor). Improved vision was immediate!

I had the surgery done at the Focus Eye Center in Ottawa in 2008 (I was 30). I opted for the latest, best, and most expensive package they offered rationalizing that I only have one pair of eyes. I think it was about $5000 at the time.

I would do it again in a heartbeat. Freedom from contact lenses and glasses is awesome for my lifestyle. I've had no significant side effects and my vision is still pretty much 20/20 as of my last optometrist appointment a few months ago.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. Do your research and buy the best you can afford.

Been wearing glasses for almost 60 years now. Bought contacts as an apprentice then got transferred to a job where I had to wear safety glasses. Still spend a lot of time in a workshop environment so I should have them on anyway.
My wife hates wearing glasses but is not a candidate for the laser. I am told that I am an ideal candidate but would have to choose which I wanted .....perfect distance, close-up, or an average in-between. One can not have both extremes.....
I just wish I did not need glasses for scuba diving, the rest of my life I can compensate...

M, I know a number of people who have had it done (none hunt). Of them, I know one person that sort of regrets it.

I've considered having it done. My concern (right word?) is as follows.

It's been around without splitting hairs for 20-25years. When I think about demographics, I think of 3 age groups
20-30
30-45
45+

So over the past 20 years. While there is lots of empirical data behind it. How much data is there on people who have had it done and are now into their late 60s and 70s. We know what can happen to us and our eyes/eyesight as we age.

People in the first age group are today in their 40s and 50s at the most and aren't old enough yet for that data to be showing and accumulating.

People in the second age group are really just starting to hit their 60s ( 40 plus 20yrs) and the problems that occur as we age. Its my guess this is where the bulk of the existing data exist. (The largest percentiles that have had it done over the past 20yrs).

People in the third age group (likely the smallest percentiles of those who have had it done) are statistics (and it's the "data" I'd want to see) are not adding to the data.

If there's one thing I don't to take many chances on.

It's my eye's and sight.

That's kinda been my big hold up JBen... only have 2 eyes... no second chances with them really.

Most clinics and practitioners are pretty consistent with stating that lasik doesn't defeat aging. That eventually your sight system will age and deteriorate to the point that the lasik has no effect.
Hence, why everyone says to get it sooner, rather than later, so you can maximize its years of effectiveness.

But nobody has solid data as to whether or not lasik causes any issues 20, 30, 40 yrs down the road when patients are in their 60s-90s.

Exactly and its "that" demographic I'd like more existing data on.
But I'm thinking not many 50year old had it done 15-20 years ago and of those that did, how many are no longer with us. I have to suspect there are very few 70-80 year old people out there that had it done 10-15yrs ago.

Those are good points guys. But the dilemma is you have to wait another 20 years for the average age group to hit 80 years old, and have good data on an average life cycle. I would be retired by then. The other thing is the people who did this 25 years ago, were subject to techniques that are not as refined as today. With the spawn of the digital age, the lasik technique is much, much better today (last 5 or so years), so really you need to wait 40 to 50 more years to find out what will happen with todays technology. And as things get better, you may want to wait longer.

Or you can dive into the theories, which suggest that normally people do not lose their distance vision as the get older, but rather their close range vision (need reading glasses). The other issue with getting old is eye diseases. Does lasik increase the risk of eye disease, don't know, but I don't understand why it would. Cataracts is the most common disease, I'm not sure how lasik would effect that. One thing I can tell you for sure, in order for me to keep up my life time guarantee on the PRK procedure done on my eyes, I have to get my eyes checked EVERY year. All is good, they just want you to keep a close eye on things. What I think that does is allows the eye doctor to discover early onset of diseases (which may be completely unrelated to the laser surgery), which if caught early, can be treated and controlled.

Anyhow, from my study of the risks, I determined it wouldn't cause any extra-ordinary risk to my eyes in the long term. So I went ahead and did it, and have been enjoying it for years. It's made a huge difference in my life, and so far it's paying off.

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

That's kinda been my big hold up JBen... only have 2 eyes... no second chances with them really.

Most clinics and practitioners are pretty consistent with stating that lasik doesn't defeat aging. That eventually your sight system will age and deteriorate to the point that the lasik has no effect.
Hence, why everyone says to get it sooner, rather than later, so you can maximize its years of effectiveness.

But nobody has solid data as to whether or not lasik causes any issues 20, 30, 40 yrs down the road when patients are in their 60s-90s.

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Not aware of this thought that it won't 'defeat aging"...as far as near or farsighted is concerned. With nearsightedness/farsightedness, your eyesight deteriorates and eventually stabilizes in your late 20's. From that point correction should be, for the most part, permanent for these and astigmatism. What lasik won't help with related to aging is the need for reading glasses... I had lasik done in my late '30's and am approaching mid '50's now and need reading glasses. JBen - I'm in the group 50+ now that had it done 15+ years ago and have several peers that have as well...and we are generally happy with it still. The 70-80 group...well those would be hard to find.

Re: vision damage - lasik is far, far safer than contact lenses.

One thing they might suggest (I think its been mostly abandoned now) is to undercorrect your non-dominant eye for reading and correct your dominant eye for long distance. That will cost you your depth perception, but you won't need reading glasses when you get old.

MarkB,

Why did you opt for PRK over Lasik?

Remember fellas, today's technology on these is often referred to as "tissue saving" over the old techniques.

But that's just It Werner. Its the people who would be say 70-80 "today", that is lacking from the science. It's not so much the vision (Near or short sighted and corrections). What I'm wonder about, *is* the various deseases and problems and theres more than cataracts, astigmatism.

Wearing glasses for another 5-10 year maybe 15 wont cause me serious problems. I wonder if having laser surgery done "now"....and then developing one of those problems......

And just there isn't enough data out there yet (imo).

I know of two people personally that had it done. One male one female. Both had it done about 5-7 years ago and the rate then was around 5 grand(not sure if per eye or total.) Male was close to 49-50 with thick coke bottle glasses, female 30ish and I never saw her with eye glasses.

The male had one eye at a time done weeks? apart and had good success with one eye and less so with the other eye sight wise. Seems he mentioned 20-15 and 20-40. anyway a really good eye/eyesight and a lesser sight in the other eye.

The female had good success with one eye and poor with the other eye. She mentioned that the problem eye was worse than before. Many trips back to Dr. with no success. She told me the Dr. said she had "let" or gotten a tear(drop) under the lense as it healed and that was causing the issue with that eye and he couldn't do anything about it.

I considered doing it and researched it quite a bit even checking with the US FAA and Transport Canada . The US FAA would not/does not license pilots to fly that have had it done. That may have change over the last 4 years but I doubt it.

Not sure about hunting affects however the FAA stated depth perception loss and halo as their biggest issues.

Well - I'm going on 81 now - been wearing glasses since I was 35 - yes at times they can be a pain but then there were times when I would have gotten things in my eyes if I wasn't wearing them - they are a form of protection - there is always a risk when you have surgery done so I try to avoid it unless absolutely necessary - when I'm fishing I would normally be wearing sunglasses anyway so having glasses doesn't really add anything - when I hunt I have a scope on the rifle so don't really worry about iron sites - I mentioned this once before - a guy that I worked with has a son who is an eye doctor - from the accidents that the doctor has seen in his office he thinks that everyone should wear glasses to protect their eyes -

Had my consult with company #1 today. I was given 4 quotes with varying options... ranging from $2800 for both eyes to $4200 for both eyes.

Considering that i'm an ideal candidate - no astigmatisms, middling-poor prescription, perfect cornea thickness, slightly smaller than average pupils - I'm a little ticked by the prices.

This was with Lasik MD who promotes their "as low as $499 per eye!" rate. Apparently, to get anywhere close to that rate, you would actually have to have perfect vision and not even need glasses. Seriously. I laughed when the consultant told me that... then stared at her like she had 2 heads.

I'm still considering it, but on a purely cost based decision... it doesn't make sense. I get $500 (my plan & my wife's) per year to cover my optometrist appointments and new glasses. I'm only out of pocket $50 at most, every other year.

For those who've had it... did you go with lifetime enhancement plans, or just 5 or 10 yr plans?

Will they let you do an eye at a time pricing for 2800 or less or do they tie you into the $2800 both eye package and then do an eye at a time spaced out on their timing?

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Will they let you do an eye at a time pricing for 2800 or less or do they tie you into the $2800 both eye package and then do an eye at a time spaced out on their timing?

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Lasik kinda forces you to do both at the same time. If you pressed to split it up, they'd let you, but you'd get hit with yet another fee to cover separate lab times and eye drops and and and... you get the picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Had my consult with company #1 today. I was given 4 quotes with varying options... ranging from $2800 for both eyes to $4200 for both eyes.

Considering that i'm an ideal candidate - no astigmatisms, middling-poor prescription, perfect cornea thickness, slightly smaller than average pupils - I'm a little ticked by the prices.

This was with Lasik MD who promotes their "as low as $499 per eye!" rate. Apparently, to get anywhere close to that rate, you would actually have to have perfect vision and not even need glasses. Seriously. I laughed when the consultant told me that... then stared at her like she had 2 heads.

I'm still considering it, but on a purely cost based decision... it doesn't make sense. I get $500 (my plan & my wife's) per year to cover my optometrist appointments and new glasses. I'm only out of pocket $50 at most, every other year.

For those who've had it... did you go with lifetime enhancement plans, or just 5 or 10 yr plans?

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Lasik MD Mississauga. 1800 both eyes, plus $400 for lifetime vision care.

If I had to do it again I would without hesitation.

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Originally Posted by skypilot

Will they let you do an eye at a time pricing for 2800 or less or do they tie you into the $2800 both eye package and then do an eye at a time spaced out on their timing?

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The one eye at a time thing is a safety precaution. The worst fear you have with laser surgery is a an eye infection - and if that occurred you could lose your sight. Two things related to this - a) if you have both eyes done at once and one gets infected, they likely both will. b) if you lost sight in both eyes - that's a lot worse than losing sight in one eye.

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Originally Posted by Bluebulldog

Lasik MD Mississauga. 1800 both eyes, plus $400 for lifetime vision care.

If I had to do it again I would without hesitation.

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Yeah, that's closer to the fees i was expecting, and would have jumped on them in a heartbeat. $2800 for basic, $4200 for lifetime... that's high enough to make me nervous.

I'm 35 now... i'd only get another 10-15 yrs out of it before i needed reading glasses at best, bifocals at worst. Arg... i hate grey-area decisions. lol

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Originally Posted by Oddmott

Yeah, that's closer to the fees i was expecting, and would have jumped on them in a heartbeat. $2800 for basic, $4200 for lifetime... that's high enough to make me nervous.

I'm 35 now... i'd only get another 10-15 yrs out of it before i needed reading glasses at best, bifocals at worst. Arg... i hate grey-area decisions. lol

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I'm 42. No issues thus far...if i need reading glasses, so be it.

I'd be careful with my expectations about lifetime care.

When I had mine done, they overcorrected to about 20/15.
I went back to my guy a couple of years ago 10+ years after and asked for a "touch up" - even offered to pay because I thought it wasn't as good as it used to be. My eyesight was 20/30 20/25. I was told they won't even consider re-correction unless one eye is 20/40 or worse.

I have lifetime, and the condition for recorrection is if I need to resort to glasses again.
I wouldn't want to do it again to just polish up my vision. Definitely not worth it at 20/25. There is risk
and time to heal, that just isn't worth it if you don't need to wear glasses.

But given before I had my surgery I couldn't see the clock next to my bedside, I definitely would do
it all over again. You can't compare wearing glasses to not having to worry about things at all.
It's not really about it saving money in the long run, it's about quality of life. I don't think paying $3000 for
2 eyes is unrealistic. Above that, maybe it's starting to get expensive for what you get, but still if you can afford
it, I'd do it.

Also, if you get an infection in one eye, it doesn't mean you will get it in both eyes. They will put you on drops right away
to stop the spread of the infection. The majority of people (I'm sure 99%) do both eyes at once. Yes there is greater risk
doing both, but I think if you can follow the physician's advice for recovery, there's not really any issues. The stories they
told me about infections are like, the guy was a fireman, and went back to work the next day and got ashes in his eyes.

They basically gave me contact lenses to put over my eyes and then made me wear special glasses so nothing could get close to my
eyes for like 1 week. Drops in day and night, etc. They also check you regularly while your healing, so the risk is very, very low if you follow their instructions.

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Originally Posted by Fishy Wishy

MarkB,

Why did you opt for PRK over Lasik?

Remember fellas, today's technology on these is often referred to as "tissue saving" over the old techniques.

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I didn't have a choice. My cornea was a bit too thin for Lasik, where it was safe to do the PRK. So that's what I went for. The only benefit is that although the healing time is longer with PRK, the end result is better quality, as there is no scar on the edge of the cornea where they put the "flap" back over. With PRK, they shave everything off, and it needs to grow back, so there's no joint in the layer over the cornea.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Well - I'm going on 81 now - been wearing glasses since I was 35 - yes at times they can be a pain but then there were times when I would have gotten things in my eyes if I wasn't wearing them - they are a form of protection - there is always a risk when you have surgery done so I try to avoid it unless absolutely necessary - when I'm fishing I would normally be wearing sunglasses anyway so having glasses doesn't really add anything - when I hunt I have a scope on the rifle so don't really worry about iron sites - I mentioned this once before - a guy that I worked with has a son who is an eye doctor - from the accidents that the doctor has seen in his office he thinks that everyone should wear glasses to protect their eyes -

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That doctor has some good advice. I agree, and people should wear protective glasses - sun glasses, etc. But it's nice if it doesn't need to be prescription glasses to do everything in life.