Canada or the U.S.

This could be a interesting discussion as long as we realize that everyone has pride and a loyalty to the country they were born in and our intention is not to run a country down but rather to maturity tackle this subject - if someone would ask me why there are advantages to living in the U.S. rather than in Canada here is what I would say - based on my living in Pa.

- The cost of everything is a lot cheaper here in the states
- The weather is nicer - that gives you a longer growing season and the ability to grow a larger variety of things
- We have more freedom - in Canada the government has a lot more control of the people
- We have the second amendment and with it the right to bear arms
- We have our constitution that gives us certain rights which cannot be taken away
- Not as many bugs
- The quality and availability of health care is better
- Taxes are lower

I think we have more crime - Canada has more open space to enjoy - especially if you like to fish - I think the ideal thing would be to have a place in Canada that you can visit doing the spring, summer and fall and then come home to your place in the U.S. in the winter time - one other thing - from my time spent in Canada I believe that Americans in general are more aggressive than the average Canadian - who tend to be more polite

Where you live is often determined where you work and you may have little choice - but when you are retired you can basically live anywhere - years ago I was fishing at Lake Nippissing and got talking to a guy who have a mobile home parked there in a camp ground - he told me that he comes there every summer and then travels to Florida in the winter and stays in a similar campground down there - if I remember correctly it only cost him a couple thousand to stay at each place - sounded pretty good to me

Listen - enjoy yourself - stay safe - and enjoy the things God has given you - Joe

Each country has special places that are great to live.
But Canada has terrible winters. Summers on nippissing would be good.

Things I admire most about America is the individual freedom,the political system and sense of patriotism.

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Originally Posted by glen

Each country has special places that are great to live.
But Canada has terrible winters. Summers on nippissing would be good.

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Funny, but Canadian winter are actually quite appealing to me. It just much better to experience them in the woods instead of city.

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Originally Posted by glen

Each country has special places that are great to live.
But Canada has terrible winters. Summers on nippissing would be good.

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Year round on the south shore of Nipissing - now you're talking.

The US is a good place, although that depends on exactly where you are living.

Canada has it's merits too:

- Skiing in BC is amazing.
- Amount of fresh water lakes we have is incredible, amazing fishing and cottage country
- Diversity of people of all ethnic backgrounds is something we celebrate. I don't need to leave Toronto to experience proper Greek, Portuguese, Chinese, Italian, etc culture and food.
- Our health care covers us ... maybe not as quick service as private care .... but at least we won't go bankrupt if we have a child or self is injured or unhealthy, and you can't cover medical insurance. That to me is a big one ... too many people in US just can't afford proper medical care, from what I hear.
- We get paid better on average.
- Canadians are kind people, we don't like conflict ... some people may see that as a disadvantage, but I think it leads to a more peaceful life.
- our maple syrup is definitely better here.

[QUOTECanada has it's merits too:
- our maple syrup is definitely better here.[/QUOTE]

Crap runs downhill right? We are above them. Nuf said.....

Question - if someone is old and needs to go to a nursing home does the Canadian government pay the expenses - was wondering - thanks

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Question - if someone is old and needs to go to a nursing home does the Canadian government pay the expenses - was wondering - thanks

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Fully covered!

what happens if the old person owns a home and has money in the bank - are they expected to use that all up before the government covers the nursing home expenses - thanks

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Originally Posted by JoePa

what happens if the old person owns a home and has money in the bank - are they expected to use that all up before the government covers the nursing home expenses - thanks

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I'm not 100% sure of those details, but it's my understanding a person's assets are considered when admitting that person into a home?
As it should be really, since the public shouldn't be expected to pay for assistance to those that are able to help themselves.

are they expected to use that all up before th government covers the nursing home expenses - thanks[/QUOTE]

It's not the " government" covering the expenses, it's the taxpayer.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

what happens if the old person owns a home and has money in the bank - are they expected to use that all up before the government covers the nursing home expenses - thanks

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In that case of having money pays their own way or give money to kids then government covers
On government pay could end up in four room ward. If you have money could be a double room or single if you can afford it

But depends if your really bad shape needing everything done for you or could be a apartment where meals provided drugs are administered

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

are they expected to use that all up before th government covers the nursing home expenses - thanks

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It's not the " government" covering the expenses, it's the taxpayer.[/QUOTE]

My stepfather went into a retirement residence three years ago (not an LTC res). The very first thing the administration asked was about Power of Attorney and Executor. I supplied the documentation and his lawyer's business card and not another word was said. No mention was ever made about estate conversion. I'm certain that's illegal for them to even ask. The government pays ZERO towards his housing other than a non-refundable tax credit,a military pension through Veterans Affairs and the Ontario Drug Benfit. It's costing him $3K per month to stay there.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

My stepfather went into a retirement residence three years ago (not an LTC res). The very first thing the administration asked was about Power of Attorney and Executor. I supplied the documentation and his lawyer's business card and not another word was said. No mention was ever made about estate conversion. I'm certain that's illegal for them to even ask. The government pays ZERO towards his housing other than a non-refundable tax credit, a military pension through Veterans Affairs and the Ontario Drug Benfit. It's costing him $3K per month to stay there.

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It's the difference between a long term care home and a retirement home. LTC is covered by the government although there is an accommodation cost paid by the resident.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/about-lo...care#section-0

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

It's not the " government" covering the expenses, it's the taxpayer.

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My stepfather went into a retirement residence three years ago (not an LTC res). The very first thing the administration asked was about Power of Attorney and Executor. I supplied the documentation and his lawyer's business card and not another word was said. No mention was ever made about estate conversion. I'm certain that's illegal for them to even ask. The government pays ZERO towards his housing other than a non-refundable tax credit,a military pension through Veterans Affairs and the Ontario Drug Benfit. It's costing him $3K per month to stay there.[/QUOTE]

That's kinda what I was saying? If a person has money (assets) they should pay their own way. If it uses up $3000/month of his money, so be it.

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

My stepfather went into a retirement residence three years ago (not an LTC res). The very first thing the administration asked was about Power of Attorney and Executor. I supplied the documentation and his lawyer's business card and not another word was said. No mention was ever made about estate conversion. I'm certain that's illegal for them to even ask. The government pays ZERO towards his housing other than a non-refundable tax credit,a military pension through Veterans Affairs and the Ontario Drug Benfit. It's costing him $3K per month to stay there.

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That's kinda what I was saying? If a person has money (assets) they should pay their own way. If it uses up $3000/month of his money, so be it.[/QUOTE]

Those are his sentiments,too. Being a very proud Korean navy vet and very successful in life,he always insists on paying his own way. He's 87 years young (well,according to him LOL).

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Originally Posted by JoePa

what happens if the old person owns a home and has money in the bank - are they expected to use that all up before the government covers the nursing home expenses - thanks

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Joe, the subject has taken a turn ... if the person is mega wealthy, I'm sure you agree, the tax payer shouldn't need to pay for the retirement home costs. That normally is paid for by the individual, and planned for well ahead of time, if they have that kind of money.

The tax payer is here to pay for individuals that are in need of help, as in does not have sufficient funds ... which I think makes sense.

Doesn't it work about the same in the US? I know my wife's grandma had to pay for her own care/stay at a retirement home ... is there such as thing as government paid for retirement homes down there?

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Originally Posted by MarkB

I know my wife's grandma had to pay for her own care/stay at a retirement home ... is there such as thing as government paid for retirement homes down there?

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My Mom is in an 'assisted living' retirement home..she foots the entire bill. It's not until she requires nursing care and no longer can live in the assisted living facility, that she will be moved into another wing. Because she will then require nursing care 24/7, that's when there is the option for Public Assistance...I believe it's $2200 a month.

BUT ..the public assistance 'room' are the ones that are x4 to a room...AND she would have to sign over all her CCP, OAS, etc cheques and the rest is covered by the province.

You do not get public assistance if you want an upgraded (semi or private) room at the Nursing home. You can't add the $2200 public-provided money to the cost of a $3200-$4200 semi or private room.

The inheritance sure gets eaten-up fast when your Mom's room cost $50K a year !!

I prefer Canada because I was born here and having seen much of the world prefer to stay here. It was a close run thing though as my maternal grandfather who was an American decided to settle in Ontario instead of California.

I have American family and friends, visit there often and have done business with American clients. I prefer Canada because it is a more tolerant, more equitable, less violent and more stable society. Taxes are higher but once you factor in American health care premiums the differences are not as great. Acute health care is equivalent but Canada lags on chronic and diagnostic care but no one goes to the poor house if they get sick.

I like Americans for the most part. What I don't like is Americanism.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

BUT ..the public assistance 'room' are the ones that are x4 to a room...AND she would have to sign over all her CCP, OAS, etc cheques and the rest is covered by the province.

You do not get public assistance if you want an upgraded (semi or private) room at the Nursing home. You can't add the $2200 public-provided money to the cost of a $3200-$4200 semi or private room.

The inheritance sure gets eaten-up fast when your Mom's room cost $50K a year !!

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In that event,you'll need to protect your Mom's assets (inheritance) by liquidating her estate through a living will. It must accomplished before a Doctor declares her "unfit to care for herself". After is too late. Get yourself to a lawyer ASAP and follow their guidance. LTC's are notorious for draining a person's estate and leaving them to languish under "public care". That would be hell on earth and a ghastly way to spend one's final years.

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Joe, the subject has taken a turn ... if the person is mega wealthy, I'm sure you agree, the tax payer shouldn't need to pay for the retirement home costs. That normally is paid for by the individual, and planned for well ahead of time, if they have that kind of money.

The tax payer is here to pay for individuals that are in need of help, as in does not have sufficient funds ... which I think makes sense.

Doesn't it work about the same in the US? I know my wife's grandma had to pay for her own care/stay at a retirement home ... is there such as thing as government paid for retirement homes down there?

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I think that things down here are pretty much the same with regard to using what you have to pay for your care - I know years ago old people would give all their assets to their children so that they would basically have nothing when they apply for assistance - but the law was changed to prevent this from happening - so if someone wants to do that they must do it a couple years prior to seeking assistance - I guess the moral of the story is when it is time to die to do it quickly and not linger in a nursing home for years and using up everything you worked for - I know a guy whose wife has been in a nursing home for years - when he visits she doesn't even know him - he told me that he had insurance for this type of thing but still has to pay quite a lot each month - he wonders how long he can do that and believes eventually he will be broke - the sad part is he is now starting to forget things to a point where he can't write out checks - believe me you don't want to get like that so hope when it is time to cash in it is a quicky - like falling out of your tree stand while hunting or falling overboard while reeling a monster walleye - remember the old saying - --- gees forgot what it was -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

In that event,you'll need to protect your Mom's assets (inheritance) by liquidating her estate through a living will. It must accomplished before a Doctor declares her "unfit to care for herself". After is too late. Get yourself to a lawyer ASAP and follow their guidance. LTC's are notorious for draining a person's estate and leaving them to languish under "public care". That would be hell on earth and a ghastly way to spend one's final years.

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Thanks for the heads up...yes that's what we did. The equity from her house is paying for her assisted living and my sister is her power of attorney and executor ( I took care of my Dad's affairs).

I think in this day and age people who are counting on being in the will and getting a part of the estate will be disappointed. Drs can keep people alive a long time. There won't be much left after the cost of Nursing Homes takes most of it.

However..if you go into an LTC and see what your MOM will get on the provincial plan...you'll be happy to use all the money to get her a semi/private room.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikePal

My Mom is in an 'assisted living' retirement home..she foots the entire bill. It's not until she requires nursing care and no longer can live in the assisted living facility, that she will be moved into another wing. Because she will then require nursing care 24/7, that's when there is the option for Public Assistance...I believe it's $2200 a month.

BUT ..the public assistance 'room' are the ones that are x4 to a room...AND she would have to sign over all her CCP, OAS, etc cheques and the rest is covered by the province.

You do not get public assistance if you want an upgraded (semi or private) room at the Nursing home. You can't add the $2200 public-provided money to the cost of a $3200-$4200 semi or private room.

The inheritance sure gets eaten-up fast when your Mom's room cost $50K a year !!

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Sorry I should have clarified, my wife's grandma was living in the US (North Carolina) ... so she definitely had to pay down there.
I wasn't aware there were government funded retirement care homes in the US, so I'm asking Joe Pa (or anyone else to confirm).

I assume your situation is in Canada?

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Sorry I should have clarified, my wife's grandma was living in the US (North Carolina) ... so she definitely had to pay down there.
I wasn't aware there were government funded retirement care homes in the US, so I'm asking Joe Pa (or anyone else to confirm).

I assume your situation is in Canada?

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They do not pay blanket coverage in Canada, you can apply for subsidized housing in a home but these are few and far between. $3000-5000 a month is normal to live in a retirement or long term care home in Ontario, more for nursing homes. It is no different than going into retirement, unless you are one of the lucky few to have a pension you better have money saved up for your future as that will be used up before you end up in a subsidized facility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkB

Sorry I should have clarified, my wife's grandma was living in the US (North Carolina) ... so she definitely had to pay down there.
I wasn't aware there were government funded retirement care homes in the US, so I'm asking Joe Pa (or anyone else to confirm).

I assume your situation is in Canada?

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I googled your question -"Are there government funded nursing homes in the U.S. - yes there are - you can get the whole story on the google site mentioned - the one thing I wonder about is why family members don't take care of their elderly like they use to - I know it isn't always possible but it can be done in many cases - that's what was done years ago - my youngest daughter needs constant care and I take care of her with little help - been doing this for over 23 years since my wife passed away - I love her and promised my wife that I would care good care of her - I have other children that help out when it is needed -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoePa

I googled your question -"Are there government funded nursing homes in the U.S. - yes there are - you can get the whole story on the google site mentioned - the one thing I wonder about is why family members don't take care of their elderly like they use to - I know it isn't always possible but it can be done in many cases - that's what was done years ago - my youngest daughter needs constant care and I take care of her with little help - been doing this for over 23 years since my wife passed away - I love her and promised my wife that I would care good care of her - I have other children that help out when it is needed -

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People did not live to be 110 in the old days, they also did not have monitors, electronics, etc, keeping them alive, they just grew old into their late 60s or 70s and died, to be a grandparent 2 generations ago was a big thing, not so much anymore.

My wife's great grandma was alive to be a great great grandma. Her kids were on social assistance themselves, it would not have been possible them to take care of their parents let alone themselves.

It is no longer possible to take care of your family on a single income, let alone take care of the previous generation and in this case generations.

Fox I hear what you are saying but the way things work down here is that any old person is getting social security payments each month and is covered by medicare so the expense part isn't the real deciding factor - it is the time it takes to care for someone that is the hard part - a lot of people don't want to be burdened with this so they ship old folks off to the nursing home - I had a paper route when I was a kid - had close to 60 customers - it was a daily paper so I delivered papers everyday except Sundays - each month I would have to make the rounds and collect the monthly bill- I remember to this day how many houses that I went into had older people living with the family - I don't even think there was such a thing as a nursing home in those days -

I remember one family that had a grandmother who had Alzheimers living with them - the old lady would leave the house and get lost - they usually kept the doors locked so she couldn't get out but once in awhile they would forget to lock the door and the old lady would be missing - they would have to drive around the neighborhood looking for her - yes it was tough but somehow they did it

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Originally Posted by JoePa

I remember to this day how many houses that I went into had older people living with the family - I don't even think there was such a thing as a nursing home in those days -

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The fact is Joe back when you were married you had neighbours like Ward and June Clever, a household where the housewife stayed at home with G'pa and the kids.

Society morphed in the 60's and conspicuous consumption required that both adults had to work. Sociaty now demands that a household has dual incomes....Governments need the taxes to maintaion our socialist cradle to grave lives.

There is no one home to take care of G'Pa anymore Joe. Nursing homes for G'pa is as normal as day care for the kids.

Yes - times have changed - being in my late 80s I witnessed the change - to my way of thinking I don't think for the better - life was much simpler in those days and people were generally nicer and less inclined to do what is wrong - today our society seems to be wrapped in being selfish and not trustworthy - one only needs to view what is on the news and the garbage that is on tv - people do things today that were shameful in the old days - I think it is sad - the kids growing up today are going to have a tough time because their world in being built on shaky ground - no moral compass exits

I like the USA,
I just don't like Americans

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

I like the USA,
I just don't like Americans

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Can't really have one without the other. LOL.

Internationally Canadians are often identified as Americans and technically we are "North Americans." Those times I've been called an American I politely point out that referring to a Canadian as an American is not always appreciated just as you would not say an Austrian is a German or refer to someone who is Scottish as British.

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Originally Posted by JUDGE

I like the USA,
I just don't like Americans

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why? - there are a lot of Americans I don't like either -

And there's lots of Canadians we don't like....Trudope for starters.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Yes - times have changed - being in my late 80s I witnessed the change - to my way of thinking I don't think for the better - life was much simpler in those days and people were generally nicer and less inclined to do what is wrong - today our society seems to be wrapped in being selfish and not trustworthy - one only needs to view what is on the news and the garbage that is on tv - people do things today that were shameful in the old days - I think it is sad - the kids growing up today are going to have a tough time because their world in being built on shaky ground - no moral compass exits

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Well, I'd say that the Italian heritage is still pretty good at keep their elderly family members at home ... probably other cultures too.
The only thing is when you're dealing with an elderly relative with a serious condition, like dementia or parkinsons ... needs 24h attention.
If you have a working family ... it's basically not possible. My grandfather recently passed from dementia ... the last 6 months were very difficult
as he'd get up at night looking for his late wife, getting angry, confused ... and then he came to the point where he could not take care of himself.
Fortunately, the family could afford a day-nurse, so they could continue to run the business. But they did keep him at their own home, until he passed.
So my point is ... life today is also different, with both parents having to work to pay the bills ... and that makes it very difficult to take care of your loved ones ... so it's not always because people are selfish.

I have had the chance to move to the US several time during my career but the only thing that stopped me was the fact I had young children and I wanted them to grow up Canadian and have Canadian values. If I did make the move sending them to private school is a MUST. In the end I decided to pass and stay in Canada.

Fast forward 13 years, both my daughters are in University and my wife and I are empty nesters (until they come back - LOL) and I would have no issue what so ever moving to the US. Up side is the cheaper cost of living (housing/taxes/vehicles), more personal rights, cheap flights to US destinations, corporate health insurance & better service with said insurance. Down side is higher crime, & higher population density, and I would not want to sell my house in Canada because it would be difficult to buy back in if I decided to come back.

J

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Originally Posted by 410001661

I have had the chance to move to the US several time during my career but the only thing that stopped me was the fact I had young children and I wanted them to grow up Canadian and have Canadian values. If I did make the move sending them to private school is a MUST. In the end I decided to pass and stay in Canada.

Fast forward 13 years, both my daughters are in University and my wife and I are empty nesters (until they come back - LOL) and I would have no issue what so ever moving to the US. Up side is the cheaper cost of living (housing/taxes/vehicles), more personal rights, cheap flights to US destinations, corporate health insurance & better service with said insurance. Down side is higher crime, & higher population density, and I would not want to sell my house in Canada because it would be difficult to buy back in if I decided to come back.

J

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You got it right - even with the private school issue - couldn't say it better myself

Keep in mind that their annual income is substantially less than ours so that offsets the difference in cost of living. If you're on a fixed pension that amount will take a hit given the current exchange rate.