Statues torn down and double standards

So we have various historical statues being torn down by crowds for many different reasons, whether they be valid reasons or just an issue with mob mentality getting out of control. Nothing is done by our elected leaders or our paid law enforcement officers that I have seen or heard besides some video taping and watching from afar.
Was this not the exact same scenario which we saw just a few short years ago when statues were being torn down by ISIS in Iraq?
Back then people were going nuts in the "free world" about these statues being destroyed and it had to stop immediately, history was being erased. It was 1 more reason to send troops over and overthrow a bad regime.
This statue destruction in Canada seems like a huge double standard to me as it looks like the people are trying to erase any vestige of the people who were at the time doing what they thought was best for everyone.
History will always look back and we can see how we can do better in the future, but this is evolution.
If you erase the past, you are bound to make the same mistakes and repeat the past.
John

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Originally Posted by johnjyb

So we have various historical statues being torn down by crowds for many different reasons, whether they be valid reasons or just an issue with mob mentality getting out of control. Nothing is done by our elected leaders or our paid law enforcement officers that I have seen or heard besides some video taping and watching from afar.
Was this not the exact same scenario which we saw just a few short years ago when statues were being torn down by ISIS in Iraq?
Back then people were going nuts in the "free world" about these statues being destroyed and it had to stop immediately, history was being erased. It was 1 more reason to send troops over and overthrow a bad regime.
This statue destruction in Canada seems like a huge double standard to me as it looks like the people are trying to erase any vestige of the people who were at the time doing what they thought was best for everyone.
History will always look back and we can see how we can do better in the future, but this is evolution.
If you erase the past, you are bound to make the same mistakes and repeat the past.
John

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It's a very different scenario. Troops weren't sent over to the Middle East save statues but to save people and stop any potential terrorist threat to North America and Europe.

I'm in the "no worshipping graven images" category. Tear all the statues down of anyone good, bad or indifferent. I won't criticize any police officer who decides not to use force against protestors over something as meaningless as a statue of some long dead politician or man of the cloth.

Tear 'em all down.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

Tear all the statues down of anyone good, bad or indifferent. I won't criticize any police officer who decides not to use force against protestors over something as meaningless as a statue of some long dead politician or man of the cloth.

Tear 'em all down.

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So by your standards, it'd be alright for someone to knock down and destroy any of your loved ones headstone in a graveyard? Afterall, a headstone on a grave can be considered just a monument of sorts, to a past loved one of someone?

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

So by your standards, it'd be alright for someone to knock down and destroy any of your loved ones headstone in a graveyard? Afterall, a headstone on a grave can be considered just a monument of sorts, to a past loved one of someone?

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A head stone isn't a statue nor is it a graven image.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

It's a very different scenario. Troops weren't sent over to the Middle East save statues but to save people and stop any potential terrorist threat to North America and Europe.

I'm in the "no worshipping graven images" category. Tear all the statues down of anyone good, bad or indifferent. I won't criticize any police officer who decides not to use force against protestors over something as meaningless as a statue of some long dead politician or man of the cloth.

Tear 'em all down.

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Wow what a weird take on this issue...
A statue merely existing does not automatically suggest or demand worship. This isn't Soviet Russia or the middle East. It's not a religious icon in a sacred space like a church. It's mainly a testament and explanation of something's origin.

"Tear 'em all down" sums up the spirit of our age perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

A head stone isn't a statue nor is it a graven image.

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Semantics. What is it, precisely, then? At its core, its a form of remembrance and honour. What if the last name on the head stone 'offends' me? Is that not the criteria for destruction/removal that's been set and approved by cowardly politicians & academics?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

It's a very different scenario. Troops weren't sent over to the Middle East save statues but to save people and stop any potential terrorist threat to North America and Europe.

I'm in the "no worshipping graven images" category. Tear all the statues down of anyone good, bad or indifferent. I won't criticize any police officer who decides not to use force against protestors over something as meaningless as a statue of some long dead politician or man of the cloth.

Tear 'em all down.

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Spoken words of a true Globalist with an agenda. Good luck with your cancel culture strategy.
We The People are taking our country back.
Looks like your on the wrong side of the fence.

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Originally Posted by Bushwhacker

Wow what a weird take on this issue...
A statue merely existing does not automatically suggest or demand worship. This isn't Soviet Russia or the middle East. It's not a religious icon in a sacred space like a church. It's mainly a testament and explanation of something's origin.

"Tear 'em all down" sums up the spirit of our age perfectly.

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The large statues in parks and public squares across Canada venerate public figures whose conduct is being re-examined in the context of changing societal attitudes toward treatment of First Nations. Removing the statues is an acknowledgement that what was done by them in that era is not compatible with today's society. Removing statues of past leaders for various sins isn't a new phenomenon and explains why many public statues of Lenin, Hitler, Hussein, Botha, Amin, etc. were taken down in their countries.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The large statues in parks and public squares across Canada venerate public figures whose conduct is being re-examined in the context of changing societal attitudes toward treatment of First Nations. Removing the statues is an acknowledgement that what was done by them in that era is not compatible with today's society. Removing statues of past leaders for various sins isn't a new phenomenon and explains why many public statues of Lenin, Hitler, Hussein, Botha, Amin, etc. were taken down in their countries.

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The argument flows both ways as it could be said that statues are a stark reminder of a path the people should never go down again. History has a tendency of repeating itself and visual reminders are a good way of ensuring we do not forget the past. A handful of vandals belonging to a special interest group are not to decide if a statue or monument remains standing. We The People as a collective assembly make that decision.

https://i.imgur.com/ib2peWf.jpg

Scrap all laws then, everybody can do what they want. You want to tear down statues maybe I want to tear down other stuff.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

It's a very different scenario. Troops weren't sent over to the Middle East save statues but to save people and stop any potential terrorist threat to North America and Europe.

I'm in the "no worshipping graven images" category. Tear all the statues down of anyone good, bad or indifferent. I won't criticize any police officer who decides not to use force against protestors over something as meaningless as a statue of some long dead politician or man of the cloth.

Tear 'em all down.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Scrap all laws then, everybody can do what they want. You want to tear down statues maybe I want to tear down other stuff.

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I don't want to tear down statues. I don't get all fussed when a statue gets torn down and the people responsible for putting the statue up in the first place aren't too enthusiastic about replacing it.

You even said to tear them down. That you could care less. So my response is I should be allowed to destroy anything I want.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

I don't want to tear down statues. I don't get all fussed when a statue gets torn down and the people responsible for putting the statue up in the first place aren't too enthusiastic about replacing it.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

You even said to tear them down. That you could care less. So my response is I should be allowed to destroy anything I want.

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If what you want to tear down is public property in a public place that honours an era, individual or actions that are incompatible with the attitudes of modern society then you'll get no argument from me.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

You even said to tear them down. That you could care less. So my response is I should be allowed to destroy anything I want.

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About here in other threads, you would ask if anyone has ever gone over the speed limit, and equate it with other law breaking. If you speed, why not statues? lol.

https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/totem_poles/

"Totem poles are monuments created by First Nations of the Pacific Northwest to represent and commemorate ancestry, histories, people, or events."


Go ahead Badenoch, grab your chainsaw and go crazy? I'd give you about a 2 minute lifespan.

Well then defund the Police let r rip. Let's have complete Anarchy.

You want to rip down statues maybe someone doesn't like a building so let's burn it down.

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

About here in other threads, you would ask if anyone has ever gone over the speed limit, and equate it with other law breaking. If you speed, why not statues? lol.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

If what you want to tear down is public property in a public place that honours an era, individual or actions that are incompatible with the attitudes of modern society then you'll get no argument from me.

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problem with this, it's being done by mobs....NOT thur public consultation. Why are we allowing special interest groups decide what we put up in public places? Being a democracy, this should be decided by elected officials after public consultation.

It's still public property and when it's defaced or destroyed the perpetrators should face charge however well their intentions are.

I know If I went down with a couple of buddies and defaced the LGBT flag crosswalk in Prescott we'd face charges. They have the video proof of 'criminals' destroying the Ryerson statue and no mention of vandalism charges.

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Originally Posted by MikePal

problem with this, it's being done by mobs....NOT thur public consultation. Why are we allowing special interest groups decide what we put up in public places? Being a democracy, this should be decided by elected officials after public consultation.

It's still public property and when it's defaced or destroyed the perpetrators should face charge however well their intentions are.

I know If I went down with a couple of buddies and defaced the LGBT flag crosswalk in Prescott we'd face charges. They have the video proof of 'criminals' destroying the Ryerson statue and no mention of vandalism charges.

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Let's also list some of the "attitudes of modern society" shall we?

Lazy, entitled, greedy, forgetful, impressionable, narcissistic... I'm sure there are more, synonyms included.

I'm ok with incompatibility.

If the statues are offensive, petition to have them moved to a museum, like any other reasonable person would be expected to do.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

Just another example of governments deciding which laws are enforced. One need only look at the village idiot, preventing investigations or paying hush money.
A case in point, the law was arbitrarily changed to allow a recent vigil in London. Of course, the village idiot seized the moment for his political purposes !! Yet, churches have been locked, pastors arrested and charged, for exercising their religious freedoms. Double standard ???? I think so!
It should be interesting how this “exception” plays out in a court hearing....Justice is blind !!! Yea right !

Yes the ‘crime ‘. would be the same. The reasons done would be entirely different. Both crimes, but the reason why , would be looked at very differently by the general public. Inclusion vs exclusion.

Happened to see this on FB....way to go Finnland LEO's !!!

Finnish city decided to paint crosswalk in rainbow colors to celebrate pride. Police decided later that the painting was actually against Finnish traffic code. Police ordered the city to remove the painting.

...https://i.imgur.com/UCvEoHEm.jpg

I think Badenoch firmly believes only those on the Left should be allowed to determine what crimes are OK. The proof is in his comments.

But only those on the Left can determine what a crime is right?

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Originally Posted by fishermccann

Yes the ‘crime ‘. would be the same. The reasons done would be entirely different. Both crimes, but the reason why , would be looked at very differently by the general public. Inclusion vs exclusion.

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Originally Posted by Bushmoose

https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/totem_poles/

"Totem poles are monuments created by First Nations of the Pacific Northwest to represent and commemorate ancestry, histories, people, or events."


Go ahead Badenoch, grab your chainsaw and go crazy? I'd give you about a 2 minute lifespan.

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Totems are not incompatible with attitudes in modern society. Neither are many other public monuments.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

I think Badenoch firmly believes only those on the Left should be allowed to determine what crimes are OK. The proof is in his comments.

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The decision was made by the police not to intervene when the Ryerson statue was toppled. Ryerson decided it won't replace the statue or pursue charges against the protestors. Their statue, their property, their determination.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

But only those on the Left can determine what a crime is right?

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How very true, just like the flavor of the week. Delusional social crusaders with a new cause every week.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The decision was made by the police not to intervene when the Ryerson statue was toppled. Ryerson decided it won't replace the statue or pursue charges against the protestors. Their statue, their property, their determination.

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And you effectively condone the actions of a group of militants. Your seemingly neutral position betrays you.

The Police on the street did not make that decision it came from higher. Again Are we not all equal? So you again stand by the fact that YOU feel Liberals should determine what is right and wrong.
As MikePal said what if I go and deface a LGBTQ Flag bet the cops will be by quick.

You have now admitted you believe that some people should be allow to destroy things if they so feel like. Hey what if someone decided they didn't like your car? Would you be fine with it if someone burned it?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The decision was made by the police not to intervene when the Ryerson statue was toppled. Ryerson decided it won't replace the statue or pursue charges against the protestors. Their statue, their property, their determination.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

The Police on the street did not make that decision it came from higher. Again Are we not all equal? So you again stand by the fact that YOU feel Liberals should determine what is right and wrong.
As MikePal said what if I go and deface a LGBTQ Flag bet the cops will be by quick.

You have now admitted you believe that some people should be allow to destroy things if they so feel like. Hey what if someone decided they didn't like your car? Would you be fine with it if someone burned it?

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My car isn't publicly-funded property. My car doesn't venerate individuals engaged in the oppression of indigenous people or minority races.

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Originally Posted by impact

And you effectively condone the actions of a group of militants. Your seemingly neutral position betrays you.

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I don't condone the conduct nor do I condemn it. I also don't get all that fired up about the toppling of stone images of dead people who implemented a system that forcibly took children away from their families, transported them hundreds of miles and required them to be educated in a system where they were emotionally, physically and sexual abused.

Then you would agree not a big deal if someone went and cut down the totem Poles or better yet like I said maybe someone doesn't like your car so they destroy it. I must assume you would be fine with both.

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

I don't condone the conduct nor do I condemn it. I also don't get all that fired up about the toppling of stone images of dead people who implemented a system that forcibly took children away from their families, transported them hundreds of miles and required them to be educated in a system where they were emotionally, physically and sexual abused.

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Do you know what the Irish were treated like in Canada?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

My car isn't publicly-funded property. My car doesn't venerate individuals engaged in the oppression of indigenous people or minority races.

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Originally Posted by greatwhite

Then you would agree not a big deal if someone went and cut down the totem Poles or better yet like I said maybe someone doesn't like your car so they destroy it. I must assume you would be fine with both.

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Anyone would be welcome to destroy my car. It's insured and I'm not emotionally attached to it. I'd probably get more in an insurance settlement than I would on a trade-in and drive a nice rental in the interim.

Takes real losers to tear down a historical statue as such? What a cowardice loser government to allow it to happen in police presence.

Just like in the States, with their southern rebel generals.There should be a vetting of all statues, depicting people in public spaces. If people have problems with their presence, they can present their case to have them removed from communal spaces and placed into a museum.

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Originally Posted by canadaman30

Takes real losers to tear down a historical statue as such? What a cowardice loser government to allow it to happen in police presence.

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Amen!!!

This is in Vaughn. Who's with me? I can bring a torch, quikcut, sledge and a truck. We could have it down in about 5minutes.

Located in Vaughan, I'm free tonight lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b36c5ee6d.jpg

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by SongDog

This is in Vaughn. Who's with me? I can bring a torch, quikcut, sledge and a truck. We could have it down in about 5minutes.

Located in Vaughan, I'm free tonight lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b36c5ee6d.jpg

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

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Well I'm sure someone could do a fake donut robbery 20km away and that will keep the fuzz busy until that statue of manure falls.

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Originally Posted by SongDog

This is in Vaughn. Who's with me? I can bring a torch, quikcut, sledge and a truck. We could have it down in about 5minutes.

Located in Vaughan, I'm free tonight lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b36c5ee6d.jpg

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

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lol.....I'm with you just say when.

Lol, earlier I was thinking there would be statues that they would show the double standard..

At the end of the day it’s vandalism. If it were a Jewish monument, people would be charged with hate crimes.

If it were Mount Rushmore, there’d be war. Did they treat FNs any better?

What is perhaps most troubling is MTPS not acting.

This entire cancel the past movement drives me nuts.
These people were human's and sure they made some poor decisions, but they also did some very good things for the country. I have no issue with a plaque being placed next to the statue speaking to both the accomplishments and the decisions that we no longer support.

But they are still part of our history and thinking that tearing down a statue somehow makes the world better is sad and should not be tolerated.

Where does it end? Its shallow narrow minded thinking.....or really lack of thinking and just short term attention grabbing, that they somehow justify as being "good".

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Originally Posted by SongDog

This is in Vaughn. Who's with me? I can bring a torch, quikcut, sledge and a truck. We could have it down in about 5minutes.

Located in Vaughan, I'm free tonight lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b36c5ee6d.jpg

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

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need me to bring anything ?

73Hunter, Lefties would have a fit and you would probably be Jailed. Most Lefties really believe that they are above the law.

I think something is being missed - these statues were put up to recognize the good certain people did - no one is perfect and many people did things that are considered no good in today's standards - for instance George Washington did a lot during the birth of this country - things that we recognize - but he also had slaves - something that was accepted in his time - it is not fair to judge someone living years ago and applying todays standards - this also goes for the confederate statues that are erected throughout the south - there were a lot of brave men who fought and died because they thought what their states were doing was right - General Lee was such a man - he was on the losing side but he did great for the south - and many southerns to this day think he was a great man - then these statues are a part of our history - agree with what these man did or not they are part of out history - there is no call to tear them down - what is being done today by people that some think are great but in the future It will be recognized how bad their decisions were - one such example is late term abortion - some time in the future this evil will be recognized but today it isn't - I say leave the statues up and recognize what these people did - good and bad -

And as far as the hoodlums who are tearing them down - we got to start cracking heads - that's the only thing that they under stand =

We should put a statue of George Floyd sitting on a horse in the middle of George Floyd park - maybe name an air craft carrier after him - change the name of some interstate to George Floyd Avenue - print a coin and a stamp with his image on it - now you got yourself a hero

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Originally Posted by JoePa

I think something is being missed - these statues were put up to recognize the good certain people did - no one is perfect and many people did things that are considered no good in today's standards - for instance George Washington did a lot during the birth of this country - things that we recognize - but he also had slaves - something that was accepted in his time - it is not fair to judge someone living years ago and applying todays standards - this also goes for the confederate statues that are erected throughout the south - there were a lot of brave men who fought and died because they thought what their states were doing was right - General Lee was such a man - he was on the losing side but he did great for the south - and many southerns to this day think he was a great man - then these statues are a part of our history - agree with what these man did or not they are part of out history - there is no call to tear them down - what is being done today by people that some think are great but in the future It will be recognized how bad their decisions were - one such example is late term abortion - some time in the future this evil will be recognized but today it isn't - I say leave the statues up and recognize what these people did - good and bad -

And as far as the hoodlums who are tearing them down - we got to start cracking heads - that's the only thing that they under stand =

We should put a statue of George Floyd sitting on a horse in the middle of George Floyd park - maybe name an air craft carrier after him - change the name of some interstate to George Floyd Avenue - print a coin and a stamp with his image on it - now you got yourself a hero

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Lol that's a hilarious joke JoePa George Floyd being a hero. What happened to him was unfortunate yes but he was nothing more than a career criminal with a rap sheet mile long nothing of any sort should be named in his honor as he was more of a blight on society than anything else.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

need me to bring anything ?

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no no no! Not THOSE kind of statues! Remember the leftist mantra: "it's ok when we do it!"

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

My car isn't publicly-funded property. My car doesn't venerate individuals engaged in the oppression of indigenous people or minority races.

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Your car is a symbol of the evil white supremacist patriarchy. It is hateful and toxic. It is destroying our planet and preventing noble, oppressed people of colour from breathing properly. Your car merely existing is offensive to the less fortunate who have to take public transit because of systemic and institutional racism. It triggers PTSD in all those who have ever been honked at. It needs to be abolished and your entire family should be publicly shamed and humiliated, before being fired from their jobs and forfeiting all their savings over to oppressed minorities...since everything is just theft anyways. And that's just for starters, before we send you off to the gulag for re-education.


What do you think everyone? Am I doing progressive politics right?

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Originally Posted by Badenoch

The large statues in parks and public squares across Canada venerate public figures whose conduct is being re-examined in the context of changing societal attitudes toward treatment of First Nations. Removing the statues is an acknowledgement that what was done by them in that era is not compatible with today's society. Removing statues of past leaders for various sins isn't a new phenomenon and explains why many public statues of Lenin, Hitler, Hussein, Botha, Amin, etc. were taken down in their countries.

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The real issue here is who is behind the changing social attitudes/social engineering. Special interest groups, corrupt & greedy corporations, crooked politicians and lazy, resentful academics. There is a culture war going on, and this is just another form of psychological warfare.

When a tiny, shrill minority is the tail the wags the whole dog, society has a problem. Everyone just panders to these whiny brats. Don't kid yourself that it's about actual change, improvement or reconciliation. Such things require strong leadership and free speech/debate. We have neither. These people are more often motivated by anger and resentment rather than genuine virtue. And then of course you have the slippery slope of where it ends once you permit this type of behaviour to rule...people getting fired for a joke they said when they were a teenager, etc.

People are free to have their own opinions. That's what living in a free Western country is all about. But taking it upon yourself to vandalize and remove things simply because they offend you is disgustingly weak, pathetic behaviour. And the police are told to stand down. You can disagree with a statue while walking past it on your way to go do something productive with your life. As a Christian, I don't have to tear down Buddhist monuments just because I believe that religion to be wrong.

"What 'multiculturalism' boils down to is that you can praise any culture in the world except Western culture - and you cannot blame any culture in the world except Western culture." -- Thomas Sowell

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Originally Posted by Tigboy 304

Lol that's a hilarious joke JoePa George Floyd being a hero. What happened to him was unfortunate yes but he was nothing more than a career criminal with a rap sheet mile long nothing of any sort should be named in his honor as he was more of a blight on society than anything else.

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Agreed X2

I have to say, I'm split down the middle on this one.

On the one hand, there's always someone offended about anything ... I can say, I'm offended McDonald's is poisoning our youth, and does that give me a right to knock off the head off each Ronald McDonald figure I see on a bench outside the restaurant?

On the other hand, there's a few statues I'd definitely like to see torn down myself, because they are vile to my own beliefs ... Like that devil worshipping statue (Statue of baphomet) in Detroit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Baphomet). I'd melt that thing in a heart beat.

Further on that second point ... so many on this blog complain we don't do enough to stand up to our government, and then when an issue is on the table, and finally someone has the balls to stand up, it's not okay? I don't get that part.