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That is a load of hooey. Secondary burn area? WTF??? There's no catalytic convertor on a stove.
The only problem with burning pine - and this goes for green hardware as well - is airtight stoves,
where people shut the airflow down so it's a very slow burning oxygen starved smokey fire.
Absolutely not challenging the OP-You do a great job on Your videos.
As far as burning pine -once i spent some time on this topic on another Forum(as a guest)
I stopped reading all the No and the few Yes, when a guy from Alaska posted:
If i do not burn pine in Alaska.....i freeze to death .That is all we have...........
Yes-one needs to know what to do it though.
PS-back in Europe we were burning(every household)coal(all kind of good and even more of the poor quality )then any kind of wood we put our hands on, then most of the combustible garbage(plastic bags,small plastic bottles)all kind of cardboard ,heck-corn when there was no coal available(corn is awesome to burn-just gives way to much heat thus can crack your stove)and even many times old torn clothes .
The garbage man had little job ,at least til the mid 90-ish.
Not saying that was good for the environment ,just everyone was doing it. Poor man's world.
Only trick we had up our sleeves-the chimney sweeper.
They were mandated (we paid thru property taxes)to come and sweep every chimney(and inspect the chimney too)once a year.
They did look like those from the movies:D
I've seen them advertised with catalytic converters. My Grandfather bought a catalytic converter sometime in the 80's for the stove at the cottage, the thing worked mint once the stove got up to about 750 degrees you engaged it (similar to a damper) and it would slow the burn right down and throw the heat. It was called a Smoke Master I think he paid more for it than he did the stove. Here is a link to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
https://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/68...ster/9259.html
Maple, Oak, Hemlock, Spruce, Poplar.... I don't care, the smoke goes up the chimney just the same. Burn it good and hot once a week and don't worry about it.
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Me too, I used to load her with cardboard once in awhile to clean the glass.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
I burn mostly hard wood - very little pine - I don't need to clean my chimney - what happens over the summer months the creosote falls off of the sides of the chimney and lands in the clean out shelf I built at the bottom of the chimney - I use to clean it but found out I didn't need to - love burning wood -
Actually some high end stoves do have a catalytic converter, my neighbour has one and it will bring temps up quite high even when the stove is damped down. Saying that I have no idea what his chimney looks like after season. They are basically a ceramic honeycomb with a massive surface area and sprayed with precious metals that react with the smoke once temps get up to 500°F. I wouldn't ever buy one, you need to follow specific steps when using them including a bypass at first till the stove gets going well, then you have to damp the stove down to a minimal burn as the converter can only handle so much smoke and if the fire gets too hot it will bypass it and go up the chimney. Plus there is regular maintenance that should be done and expensive replacement as they do wear out. Here's a good article I found on them. https://woodstove.com/images/editori...talyticman.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I have a smaller Napolean woodstove rated for 600 -1500sq.ft. It's rated at 73% and a good part of that reason is because it's design allows for a secondary burn of gases. It's classified as a non-catalytic but come close to efficiency ratings. There is a 3' rectangular manifold (air tube) with holes drilled in it on both sides that runs down the top center of the firebox. At the back of it there is access to a secondary airflow that runs runs under and up the back of the firebox to that channel and when the stove is going well everyone of those 70 holes is shooting out 1-2 inch long blue flames back into the firebox as those gases get burnt at a higher temp from the superheated O2 influx. I get zero creosote in the chimney and maybe a 1/2 cup at most of fine ash a year when I brush the chimney. I only use dry softwood as kindling, or for two years I used basswood from a big one that came down in my back yard.
Even though it's an airtight stove it's still at it's most efficient when burning wide open so I tend to regulate the heat by how much wood I put in for the most part, and that mostly relates to outdoor temps. Apart from when I fill the box to 75% when I go bed I will close the draft down maybe 80%, other than that it doesn't often get throttled that often except at times with the morning sun shining in through 7 4x8 windows facing south.
Cheers
I pick up big pine slab bundles for $25 (about 1.5 face cord) from the mill up the road. I cut it up into 16" pieces. I burn them it in the morning and evening this time of the year (and late fall) . In fact have a 'pine' fire going as I sit here. Easy start, fasts burn, fast heat. Takes the chill out.
I don't worry about creosote build up, I usually run a brush thru the Selkirk every spring.
Thanks for the videos...I've been burning firewood as my primary source of heat for about 30 yrs now and still find them good to watch.
FirewodGuy....if you have time can you tell us how best to prep poplar for firewood.
I had a dozen trees topped off because they were in danger of falling onto the hydro lines. I left the main trunk (about 20') standing for the past two years. I was told that is the best way to let it dry.
Do you think that's long enough ?
Great videos FirewoodGuy.
Yes you definitely burn what grows near you.
My camp is surrounded with mostly Jack Pine which is what I burn.
I don't have a big camp and even at -35, the windows are open all day long when the woodstove is on.
Burning dry pine must make a difference with creosote because whenever I clean the chimney hardly nothing comes down.
You have just found your favorite early and late season wood, great kindling too! You can toss a block in the stove thats been split in half and light it without paper. Mine gets processed with everything else and tossed in the pile. The only thing about that stuff is that it will soak up water like a sponge after it's been dried.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
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I have the same predicament. I rented a cherry picker last summer and topped off a half dozen hybrid poplars.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
Those suckers were close to 80 feet tall. All that remains are totem poles.
I will be cutting them down shortly and will split them to dry.
Reason being and from past experience is that you can't kill those suckers.
I have had full grown trees grow from stumps that I have had to revisit again.
Ohhh the joys of a rural property....lol
https://i.imgur.com/gxrvmmG.jpg
I run a Pacific Energy Summit. Like other newer high efficiency stoves, there's a baffle plate at the top of the stove that houses the secondary burn. It's pretty neat. When the stove is cookin and you shut it down, you'll just see fire shooting down thru those baffle holes onto the top of the wood. Then she's cruisin. Also, on this particular model, there's even a pressure sensitive door(called the EBT system on the PE stoves) that moves to control air going into that secondary combustion area. I love this stove :DQuote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
https://www.pacificenergy.net/technology/baffle-system/
We burn poplar and jackpine at the camp all the time. I find poplar dries a lot better out of the elements (rain/snow) If not it goes punky. As long as the fire is good and hot throw her in and turn down the draft. [emoji106]
I got the same model, been an excellent stove for the past 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by LowbanksArcher
I never burn poplar in the cabin, was told it does not give off much heat, usually just burn it at the campfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregger17
Your right, it definitely doesn’t have the BTUs...but it’s great during the day too maintain temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
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Never much thought about that aspect, but you still got to cut and split it to size and stack it to dry. With that equation and no splitter I use the energy on the better burning wood. I have a bunch of big poplars around the cabin which need to come down took three down in past two years, four more to go, I just cut as big a chunk as I can load in a wheelbarrow and off to the side of the campfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregger17
I had 15 80' jack pines killed by something 3 years ago on my cottage property. All threatening some out buildings so had to deal with them. All I've burnt is pine in my woodstove, other than a big oak log at night for a long slow burn, but while I'm awake, pine all day long. Sure doesn't have the same btu's, and takes more attention, but its what I have.
My screen on top of my chimney sure cresotes up fast with it though. I should just remove it for the winter, but when I realize my draft is down, that is always the cause. Just a quick brush off and its good to go again. Sweep the chimney every spring, and its never been too bad, but definitely some build up.
That’s what we do , cut them before “mother nature” does. We get wicked high winds up there off the lake. Yeah are splitter makes it better for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilroy
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Perfect FishHog, use the resources and protect the buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHog
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I’ve never had a problem burning softwood. Use to have the chimney cleaned once a year. Year 5 the Sweep guy told me I was wasting my money. Every 3 years now and more for the inspection. I burn 8 face cords a year, I burn hot, 350-450f, and never had a problem with build up. Nothing compares to wood heat IMO.
Had two woodstoves at my last house, but on natural gas now. Miss the woodstove heat, certainly not even close to being the same.
I have heard that insurance companies in my area (west of lindsay) are not insuring houses with woodstoves and making the homeowners remove them or have their insurance cancelled. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?
The problem with letting a tree stand is that it will slowly dry but that process will cause the bole to twist making it really tough to split. It also encourages rot from the stump upwards. While the results vary with different species this is especially true with most pines, spruce and white birch. Balsam is one exception because the gum is found only in the bark. You are better to knock it down but try to keep it off the ground if you can't buck it or intend to buck it right away. Leave it laying on the ground for any length of time will end up with rot.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
An old guy once told me that they used to cut the poplar logs into planks and stand it on end in a barn. After 2 yrs it was so hard you had to drill to put a nail into it. They used to use poplar for flooring in the old farm houses, so it had to be pretty tough.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
That's why I let it stand rather than blocking it right away. Standing dead/dry trees seem to be the best firewood.
i remember another forum member bringing this up, definitely not just LindsayQuote:
Originally Posted by machron
I was told long time ago once log is layed down it’s starts to break down something about wood fibres being compressed in different directionsQuote:
Originally Posted by MikePal
There is no problem burning softwood if it is dry. If you burn a fire properly you should have very little creosote build up.
I clean my chimney's every year it only takes me 30 minutes for both (Garage and House) I get very little out of it and I burn 10 face each year in the house (well except this year used the heat pump on the warmer days). If you have good airflow (no elbows) and a straight pipe out you can have a little chimney fire each week on purpose and burn the creosote out. I know a few people that do that.
But there are no issues with burning softwood like pine or soft hardwoods like poplar they just don't create a good bed of coals or last very long.
Most wood stoves are designed with a baffle near the chimney to create the secondary burn effect of the gases.
Thank you, my life is research but more importantly, I felt like I had to know tree identification and heat values of species if I wanted to sell firewood. I started out picking up wood on the side of the road so I had to identify what is good wood or not. Now I can tell firewood species by smell, in the dark, or rotting in a years-old pile
It depends on the stove I would not say most. Mine isn't it's 13 years old which I bought new. Been heating my 1200 sq ft home (2400 inc basement) with it for 13 years. During that time I used nothing but firewood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirewodGuy
Collectively pointed out by the group is that you can burn whatever, how ever, as long as it gets warm enough for you and that you clean your chimney enough. It seems that the underlying significant point of burning good dry hardwood versus pine, wet or mediocre wood is that you save time, effort and money through efficiency. Thank you, I have a lot more videos coming. I just started my channel a couple months ago and have over 50 videos. I plan on giving back to youtube what it has given to me. Also, there is something about firewood and all its aspects that intrigue many of us, just think of how many people think chopping wood with an axe is invigorating even though they are not familiar with it.
One thing I have never been able to find is good information on the BTU's per species of wood in Ontario 3 different ones and 3 different answer.
Two years is not enough. Maybe it is a good way to have it dry in trunk form than being felled and laid on the ground, but ultimately, the best way to dry firewood fast is to have it all cut and split ASAP. the smaller the pieces, the quicker the drying time. Two years drying is not enough for unsplit rounds that even a little as 6 to 8 inch diameter or more. There are other factors that determine drying time like when the tree was cut (less moisture in winter), water content of each species or years since death of the tree, if the tree was hollowed out, etc. Best way to tell, when knocking two logs together, you will hear a dry clink sound or a wet thud sound. I don't have any experience with poplar, I've sold hardwood over the years but just started selling pine, spruce and other softer hardwoods for outdoor burning, but I still wont pick up poplar. Its nice to have when free if its not that good but you're still getting some heat with it. Being familiar with many types of wood and their drying times, poplar should dry fast.
Thanks a lot, I'm totally new to the filming realm. They will be better in the future.
I need to buy a chimney sweep, for those that have one....are they better to be nylon or steel ? I have a 6” Sentinel chimney
Mine has metal bristles, I don't really think it matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Regrowth is even worse with poplar's cousin the linden or basswood. Chutes galore post-cutting. When fresh cut, it smells like pepsi (not coke, seriously) and when burned, it smells like incense of some sort. Softer wood as well, while white birch, another cousin is only a little bit harder.
I have steel, seems to me it would be better but I don't know.
I run it through the chimney 3 times and then clean the cap with a wire brush if it needs it.
The main run of my chimney is out side and I remove the clean out then go up on the roof and drop the rope through it. My son ties on the brush and I pull it up through the chimney. I have one elbow and on 3 ft section in the house I remove those and bring them in the garage and run the brush through them 3 time. Takes me total time 30 minutes.
The garage I have to take apart 2 ft pipes and 2 adjustable elbows and run a brush through the small part in the roof, still only takes 30 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
As far as I know there's no relationship between poplar and birch. One is Betula, one is Populus-- individual species. Regardless, don't sell poplar short as it has its place in the firewood industry. As product to sell in bundles to campers, trembling aspen and large tooth aspen, when cured burns clean, gives off little smoke and usually burns with a snap and crackle that gives off sparks galore--something those tourist type campers soak up while sitting around their Winnybagles. And when dry, rings as clear as any hardwood when whacked together.
Generally I use the soft hard woods or softwood in the spring or fall when I don't need a hot fire.
GW - the quick and dirty BTU calculation is based on the weight of the wood. If a chunk of poplar weighs half of what a chunk of oak the same size weighs, it has about half the BTU's. The one exception to that is gummy wood - it has more than you would think from the weight. A ton of oak and a ton of poplar should have about the same BTUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
There's a pretty good BTU table. It shows poplar at about 2/3 of oak.
It does seem a bit odd elm falls halfway between the two. I'd think elm would be right up there with oak.
https://www.firewood-for-life.com/firewood-btu.html
I found this paragraph on another chart with similar values - more or less what I said above.
[COLOR=#1A1A1A]All firewood has about the same BTU per pound. Non resinous wood has around 8000 to 8500 BTU per pound, resinous wood has around 8600 to 9700 BTU per pound. Less dense softwoods have less BTU per cord than more dense hardwood but they also weigh less per cord. Resinous wood has more BTU per pound because the resins have more BTU per pound than wood fiber has
Selkirk recommends against using steel bristles in their chimneys. The little pamphlet said nylon or brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
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Depends on what document you look at. I have 3 and all 3 are different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werner.reiche
I haven't seen a wire brush for sale for many years, I assumed that was because the industry is dominated by Selkirk and that's what they recommend.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Also have to say...those nylon bristles are MORE than adequate to clean the chimney, nasty hard bristles Haha..
I have no problem selling the poplar that I cut to the cottage and camping crowd. They can't get enough of it. Makes nice bonfires for sure.
Are they significantly different? If so - some are obviously right and some are obviously wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Red Oak should be around 24, white pine around 14. If you have a chart like that, it is probably reasonable.
Here's one from Ontario Woodlot. Red Oak is 27 and on this webpage Red Oak is 21
https://www.offroaders.com/tech/firewood-BTU.htm
Table: 2 – Heating Value of Ontario Tree
Species
Species Gross Heating Value
(million BTU) *
Rock Elm 32.0
Shagbark Hickory 30.6
White Oak 30.6
Sugar Maple 29.0
Beech 27.8
Red Oak 27.3
Yellow Birch 26.2
White Ash 25.0
White Elm 24.5
Red Maple 24.0
Tamarack 24.0
Black Cherry 23.5
White Birch 23.4
Hemlock 17.9
Trembling Aspen 17.7
White Pine 17.1
Basswood 17.0
White Cedar 16.3
White Spruce 16.2
Balsam Fir 15.5
It's not like it's a big deal the BTU'ss, but I find it interesting.
I generally burn what ever I get for free, which tends to be Ash, elm, poplar, maple.
The Ontario Woodlot's numbers are definitely suspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Red Oak everywhere lists at near 24.
Also, do you think Hemlock, white pine and basswood all contain the same BTUs?
Not likely.
Surprised the Ontario list doesn't include Eastern Hornbeam (Ironwood) . We have a lot of it around here and is by far the most dense of the hardwoods and has a BTU of 27.1 (according to the chart below).Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
When we were logging the bush we used to kept it set aside...that's Jan/Feb overnight wood. :)
I've also planted Black Locust..great wood for heat !!
Quote:
Even among the hardwoods, some burn hotter than others, churning up more BTUs per cord. For the sake of comparison, here are the BTUs per cord of some of the hardwoods commonly found in the eastern United States:
Osage orange, 32.9 BTUs per cord
Shagbark hickory, 27.7 BTUs per cord
Eastern hornbeam, 27.1 BTUs per cord
Black birch, 26.8 BTUs per cord
Black locust, 26.8 BTUs per cord
Blue beech, 26.8 BTUs per cord
Ironwood, 26.8 BTUs per cord
Bitternut hickory, 26.5 BTUs per cord
Honey locust, 26.5 BTUs per cord
Apple, 25.8 BTUs per cord
Mulberry, 25.7 BTUs per cord
Beech, 24 BTUs per cord
Northern red oak, 24 BTUs per cord
Sugar maple, 24 BTUs per cord
White oak, 24 BTUs per cord
White ash, 23.6 BTUs per cord
Yellow birch, 21.8 BTUs per cord
Red elm, 21.6 BTUs per cord
Hackberry, 20.8 BTUs per cord
Kentucky coffee tree, 20.8 BTUs per cord
Gray birch, 20.3 BTUs per cord
Paper birch, 20.3 BTUs per cord
White birch, 20.2 BTUs per cord
Black walnut, 20 BTUs per cord
Cherry, 20 BTUs per cord
Green ash, 19.9 BTUs per cord
Black cherry, 19.5 BTUs per cord
American elm, 19.5 BTUs per cord
White elm, 19.5 BTUs per cord
Sycamore, 19.1 BTUs per cord
Black ash, 18.7 BTUs per cord
Red maple, 18.1 BTUs per cord
That chart shows ash way higher than oak and also shows elm easy to split, no way I'd pay attention to that one. I've had pieces of twisty piss elm that my maul would just bounce off.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Thx, a friend recommended plastic/nylon for stainless chimneys tooQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
You got that right! You couldn't give me a cord of elm free unless it was already split.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
Great thread, lots of interest and knowledge being passed on
I am surprised that Cherry is so far down on both lists, I always thought it was one of the denser hardwoods.
I will be doing a video on such numbers in the future.
They have the same shaped leaves even.
Cherry is mediocre, black cherry is the hard stuff. when you look at the sapwood and heartwood, you can tell that its more solid the cherry
No osage orange here guys so don't start looking for it
I can’t stand burning black cherry can’t believe people smoke with it
My favourite just because I have supply is ash ,sugar maple,red maple,oak,black locust,elm
Beech I don’t even waste my time with it
Sassafras I just leave it laying
Popular I’ll burn in the shop
Why don't you like Beech? I got a pile of it in one of my tandem load of logs and found it burns quite well with good heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
Here is my last pile of JackPine from a couple years ago. I think there was 37 cords. I’m good for a few more years. It’s has been covered with tin. Attachment 41600
Attachment 41601
Attachment 41602
There's not much better than beech, imo. If you have to bring wood inside, there's nothing cleaner, that smooth bark leaves all the dirt outside. It can be a little tough to split when it gets curly.
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Beechnut trees I have usually go hollow then come down. Cutting beech is brutal on chainsaw for one it’s packed with squirrel chipmunk nuts/dirtQuote:
Originally Posted by smitty55
So my beech logs get put in washouts.
I love live beechnut trees some hold there leaves all winter nuts are great for wild life
A treat to burn in the house is a old pear tree
I have found that beech is one of the tree's hanging dry because its killed by the canker. When I cut it I will cut out the knot parts and they are for camp fire wood, way to hard to hand split. But it burns nice and splits good.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
See GW, this is how it's done!Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter
I have a shed now to hold the wood.:p