Peace in education

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

They may be also including thinks like UI premiums (which actually come out of your salary) and WCB premiums which are a "payroll tax", not a benefit.

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EI (UI) comes out of the employees pay but the employer must also contribute 1.4x the amount deducted from the employee.

CPP comes out of the employees pay but the employer must also match the amount deducted from the employee.

WSIB is paid directly by the employer and varies depending on the job description.

Those 3 items alone amount to 11.6% of the employee's gross pay in my business and are remitted directly and not deducted (employees portion which is close to 7% of gross pay is deducted).

So in my case each employee costs an extra 11.6% above their gross pay before benefits are even considered. It can be a little more convoluted if the employee reaches their contribution limit for CPP and EI. In those cases the percentages go down a little as some of their pay will be exempt from deductions and the corresponding employer contributions are not required.

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Originally Posted by JBen

Sharon, just on that note.
Please everyone, accept that it is impossible to discuss “some” things without using broad brush strokes.

I am “POd”. I have friends whose children are out of school. Some of those children are off to University next year and this is a critical time of year. Some of those children there are scholarships at risk. Some of those children have summer jobs lined up and they may be at risk. Have “teachers” looked at the scarcity of employment out there?

I loathe the grass is greener stuff. That said, there is little disputing that those in PS have it really good relative to everyone else, especially these days. I have friends that are teachers, family that are teachers and EAs, so I know what it’s like for them to.

We (meaning all of us) are in the boat we are in for reasons. One reason, or part reason is because “Teachers” didn’t (NOTE the past term) care to think much beyond the end of their own noses. More than happy to accept the love back in the day.

I blame Unions for the largesse and over spending/over hiring, and more and like DGeary feel its past time they be taken down, dismantled and reformed. And if not that, at the least kicked to the curb, out of Queens Park and one heck of a high, thick wall erected. So while I can disentangle myself, look at things (no matter the topic) from all sides, and coldly, dispassionately, logically and rationally.

Teachers at least 50% of them yet again voted to strike. Many more are on the picket lines essentially……….Cant be bothered to see that this is about.
Money

And the lack of it. Money the Government doesn’t have, money we don’t have, money we can’t continually fork over paying for their mistakes (which includes campaigning for this government for 15years) and more.

If “Teachers” are moaning that this is about the quality of education for our children this time, deal with it, suck it up and find ways to do something about it. “Teachers” have worked hard to keep this govt in power, campaigned for, spent millions during elections, voted for them in 2014, 2011, reaped benefits for years prior and more. Without coming to us for more, without using our children as pawns and putting guns to the heads of politicians.

No-one to blame but themselves and any animosity or hostility or cutbacks or pink slips that falls on them. Just as it’s a mistake for people to blame teachers for this, its a mistake for teachers who resent the bullseye, animosity from the public…..

Thank your Union, they brought it on you.

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I've enjoyed this discussion, but have little patience for grand generalizations about any profession in general.
It is a much more complicated situation then has been discussed , but I don't have the energy, nor the thick skin :) to get into it.

Don't forget , that we tried to do our part on the last contract negotiations by giving up 2/3 of our sick day plan = lots of saved dollars for the govt.

This govt. is trying to solve its' debt problems on the backs of nurses and teachers. It will work , but the public will be affected.

I'm still waiting to see the action/ money saved by eliminating thousands of other public sector employees as Hudak recognized needed to be done.

re larger classes: This would not be a big problem except: Special classes for the learning disabled are all but eliminated . These children with special needs are now in regular classes. Increasing class size means those kids will get even less of the time they need to feel/be successful. Not a problem if it's not your child.


https://twitter.com/ontarioteacher3

Sharon :)
Your missing a suble thing, and I’m not sure which is the best way to illustrate it back to front or front to back (chronological order), meaning 2015 back to 2000, or 2000 forward to 2015.

Lets agree (and I assume we do based on your posts) this is about a lack of money. Money that is needed to ensure our children get the education they deserve………the classroom environments they deserve ( I agree, too many in a class is not a good thing).

Whose fault is it, we don’t have the money. I hate to say it but stop pointing your finger solely at the province.
And please don’t suggest the Province of Ontario doesn’t rake in enough.
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Related: Healthcare.
We need more Drs and Nurses (no argument) today.
We need more in years to come when Boomers start dealing with advanced age.

We don’t have the money
Why?

So if we agree that right now, today. There isn’t enough money for either our children (their education)…..or Healthcare.
Why?
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Well go back to the years 2000 and start working forwards.
Great, “teachers” got mad and reluctantly accepted (job actions) the contracts back 2010/2011. Why did Dalton have to find the back bone to begin with? See all the over hiring and love in the years leading up to 2010. Why was he throwing money at them? We know why this govt buys their wins like no other in history.

On that note, much, much has been studied, written about the growth in Public Service, growth numbers, growth in salaries/compensation. Its virtually impossible to deny this.

I saw something last week that “said” ( I don’t take it as gospel) that over the 10-12 years teachers salaries increased 30%….I know mine didn’t increase 30% between 2002 and 2014.

We know also the province has had to crack down on enrollment into Teachers College and that many new teachers have to take contract work years initially. Conclusion

Theres too many
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Now because he had a back bone and took away sick days etc, etc. Rewarded a paltry 2% to 2.5%/year (still better than what Johnny Q was seeing) many Teachers/Unions got really mad him….There was a chance they might lose in 2011.

So they scrapped the gas plants and 1.1 billion dollars were flushed down the drain. More money flushed..

and on and on and on,

No one to “blame” but yourselves.
If I binge eat for 7 years and then have to shed 30 pounds. Should I blame McDonalds?

Who has been front and centre campaigning really hard them over the years.
Your Unions.
So accept “blame” for keeping this inept, corrupt, wasteful and more gov’t in power to.
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Nice of “you” to offer up sacrificial lambs (anyone else in PS) as long as it’s not us..
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So yes we ca blame the Liberals for many many things. Be it E-Health, be it Gas plants, or the GEA (sky rocketing Hydro) and so much more.

Unions accepted a whole lot of love creating some of the problems in return for the support.
Unions have worked tirelessly getting this govt elected, time and time and time again.
See also Ms Wynne’s first priority when the donned the crown.
It wasn't picking a cabinet
It wasn’t the budget due in weeks
It wasn’t the Gas scandal (raging at the time)
It wasn’t Johnny Q public
It was closed door meetings with Teachers Union brass.
And 500mm handed to one just before the 2014 election along with another 8.5% for the OPP
And so much more.
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Very interesting read. Thanks.

Lol,

I don’t know how else to express it Sharon. We all know the state of the province, we know that they are “to blame” for mismanagement, scandals, vote buying (insane spending..where did they spend?? Certainly not infrastructure and jobs in private), more. The growth in PS has been pretty well documented and established.And the reasons for it (largely). I don’t recall any Union saying no "those raises are too much" or we’ve hired too many, or ……..Did whichever Board it was that got the 500mm just before the lection ( I wonder how many nurses that might hire) say no? The OPP say “thats too much given things"

1.1 billion for the gas plants. How many Nurses might that hire?
Why did that happen? Because it was looking like they might lose a nail biter.
Why? Well scandals and more, but also because McGuinty got tough and the Unions...



The Unions made their beds.
If theres no money for our children, why? And haven’t the Unions worked hard to see this government elected since 2000? Begs the questions, given they (Unions/teachers) have had a role in things, why they are holding our children hostage today. I am not “kidding” when I’ve related that I have friends whose children’s scholarships are at risk. or whose summer jobs may be ( need that money for tuition next year) and all the way down the line (HS, Elementary and Catholic now)..Basically

We/they/you got what you asked for and now….rather than dealing with it…...

In the coming years there may be more cutbacks, more taxes raised.
Why?

Came in and turned on the tv.... Jaws .... love the mayor on Jaws.... no facing reality, no taking responsibility, no concept of the real impact to people....I think he would do real good as a Liberal politician.:silly:


You want to see some binging... wait until just before the next election when the unions start asking the Liberal gov't for more.... they will sell of this and that and balance the budget in 2017.... then zoom to a 15B debt in 2018 .... or a Union sponsored NDP gov't

Anyone that thinks he/she is making too much money (public sector or not) can contribute (make a donation) to our Ontario Government so it might help them out of this mess. I think its even tax deductible.

Why would Fratri.
I havent voted for them. I haven’t campaigned for them. I’m taxed to the teeth paying for their mistakes and more already.

Maybe I’m wrong, but if Im not mistaken the people (Unions) who have worked so hard to keep them power and thus helped create the mess. Don’t they have millions and millions in their war chest? :) They certainly do when it comes election time and there are advertisements, attack ads to be bought for the Liberals.

Maybe the teachers that voted to strike, "because there isn’t enough money for a our children", could instead hold a vote to say “you know what” we reaped the benefits for years until the money ran out, and have campaigned and voted for this……instead of moaning about a mess we helped create, maybe we should either accept the govts position ( Many did vote for it) or suggest other ways they could save a little money, and not put kids on the street? What a novel concept “save a little” vs ask tax payers to pony up more.

In case its not clear, I don’t really blame teachers for the mess thats on their Unions and the Liberals. However striking now given many things. Thats “crossing lines"

Maybe just me but I’ve tried to teach my children to take responsibility for their decisions.

I was talking to a fishing buddy who is a teacher and now out on strike with the Rainbow District School Board. Says he's getting 3/4 of his full pay while out on strike.
Now I don't know about you folks who've had to walk a picket line in the past but when I had to the one time, we got a pittance in strike pay something like $90/wk. And these guys are getting 3/4 of their pay.

They sure get no sympathy from me.

Maybe they are getting 3/4 of their pay but its coming from their own pockets, they (teachers) have been contributing to that strike fund from their own paychecks over the years.... And not all teachers across the province will be getting 3/4 pay if there is a full blown strike just the boards that contributed (from their own paychecks) will get that strike pay.

Edit: That is probably why Rainbow District went for a full blown strike, a benefit that most boards or teachers won't have.