Peace in education

The whole thing is a charade. My buddies wife is a SS schoolteacher in Peel and they told the kids to clean out their lockers when the strike began as the year was over .
2 . When the strikes started the Education Minister said repeatedly " I DONT KNOW WHAT THE ISSUE'S ARE " and then we find out the strike may be illegal because they are striking over PROVINCIAL ISSUES just reeks of BULLSHYTE .
3 Frank ,from what I know about you here on the forum I like . But making a comparison to teachers taking a bit of a haircut and to do a bit more for less to a 3rd world system is laughable. And no I am not a teacher hater or jealous of what they have as I generally like teachers and the work they do for our/my kids . I also work in the education system and am a PS employee but even this numpty can see the system is broken.

There is actually no reason why the school year has to be a write off if they settle or get legislated back. There is still 3 months left before class starts in September. They could make up the lost time over the summer right ? :ashamed: I mean they are doing this "FOR" the kids right?

How many here think that has a hope in hell of happening? Let's see a show of hands......:joker:

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Originally Posted by terrym

There is actually no reason why the school year has to be a write off if they settle or get legislated back. There is still 3 months left before class starts in September. They could make up the lost time over the summer right ? :ashamed: I mean they are doing this "FOR" the kids right?

How many here think that has a hope in hell of happening? Let's see a show of hands......:joker:

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When other unions struck,their pay and benefits stopped,instantly and didn't resume until the strike was settled and everyone was back to work,no matter how long it took to settle. If that's happening,here? Somehow,I doubt it. The government has yet to put forth demands or proposals like increasing class sizes,laying off EA's,reductions in benefits. It's all bafflegab and all they want is to dump it on "arbitrators as scapegoats to avoid political accountability for bad decisions. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by trimmer21

When other unions struck,their pay and benefits stopped,instantly and didn't resume until the strike was settled and everyone was back to work,no matter how long it took to settle. If that's happening,here? Somehow,I doubt it. The government has yet to put forth demands or proposals like increasing class sizes,laying off EA's,reductions in benefits. It's all bafflegab and all they want is to dump it on "arbitrators as scapegoats to avoid political accountability for bad decisions. This is getting beyond ridiculous.

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I brought this up either earlier (or in another thread) - when the teachers in one board, the province needs to lock them all out. The problem is striking teachers in one board can get a contract win that is used as the rule province wide. And the rotating strikes cannot be tolerated. Once they strike, they should be locked out until a new contract is in place. The whole issue is the mechanism put in place for strikes vs private companies has been bastardised by the public service unions and has neutered the government management in the negotiation process - never mind that government negotiators don't have the cajones to deal with the teachers unions. If Wynne is in a need of something to privatize to save a few bucks, education would be a lot better place to start than Ontario Hydro.

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Originally Posted by fratri

Not to be mean but your friend can always put them in private school where it costs a lot more and then pay full tuition when they get into University... Most of the post-secondary cost of education here in Ontario is covered by the tax payers...

Working harder and doing more for less is not in the best interest of Canadians....that's a the 3rd world model.....but I certainly understand the frustration this strike is putting on students and family members.... It's too bad they can't sit down and settle this out...

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Couple things Fatri, I
1)Isn't that why she taxes in the first place? For her childs education, not for Unions, or teachers to live well on/off?

2) "3rd" world. Get used to it, and maybe this is what those is PS can't fathom. This isn't 2000 anymore. The world has changed. What makes "you" think you should be immune to reality?

Public Service. That means "you" serve us. Your employers, not the other way around. We don't live in a bubble. And that kind of Union thinking is why many jobs have left Ontario, many plants closed, why Automotive companies have struggled.

Unions are eating their own.

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If this was private vs public sector, we would be switching to long distance education via Mexico to get our children educated. And don’t think that won’t happen.Unions are going to eat their own, at a faster rate than big business.

This is clearly not a sustainable model. Public Sector cannot sustain itself with the current salaries and pensions, especially when everyone else is making less money and pensions are a thing of the past. Fair? No. Fair that classrooms are too big? No. Fair that everyone in the business sector is doing 5x what they did 10 years ago? No. Fair that jobs have gone to countries who pay less? Not for us. But the economy is a living beast, and is equalizing globally. Our standard of living is going down, not up. Having a job is not a right. It's a privilege. To be sure, unions have raised the standard for their members, but some of the rules they’ve enforced through bargaining have made them (companies and unions) less adaptive to change and completely uncompetitive.Unions are not interested in efficiency. If they are truly concerned about class size and special education then it has been well documented that amalgamating the Catholic and Public board into one board would save $1.2 - $1.6B annually. Further savings would be realized by doing the same with the two French boards. It is all about economies of scale. Those annual savings would certainly go a long way towards funding programs for special needs children, funding smaller class sizes and provide new learning materials. After all it is about what is best for the kids, right?

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Its basic economics.
If you don't like the way economics/economies work...Move to communist states, like Russia, china or soclialist ones like Greece.

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Originally Posted by terrym

There is actually no reason why the school year has to be a write off if they settle or get legislated back. There is still 3 months left before class starts in September. They could make up the lost time over the summer right ? :ashamed: I mean they are doing this "FOR" the kids right
How many here think that has a hope in hell of happening? Let's see a show of hands......:joker:

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Also touched on her post.
Lets assume they decide to extend the year to the end July. Many kids in grades 11, 12 or doing victory laps, have summer jobs lined up. Jobs (which are very scarce and hard to find...given "reality") and they need the money for their tuitions/other things. So again, any teachers willing to reimburse her, or the tens of thousands of kids....

?

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

I brought this up either earlier (or in another thread) - when the teachers in one board, the province needs to lock them all out. The problem is striking teachers in one board can get a contract win that is used as the rule province wide. And the rotating strikes cannot be tolerated. Once they strike, they should be locked out until a new contract is in place. The whole issue is the mechanism put in place for strikes vs private companies has been bastardised by the public service unions and has neutered the government management in the negotiation process - never mind that government negotiators don't have the cajones to deal with the teachers unions. If Wynne is in a need of something to privatize to save a few bucks, education would be a lot better place to start than Ontario Hydro.

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Yep

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Originally Posted by fratri

Working harder and doing more for less is not in the best interest of Canadians....that's a the 3rd world model.....but I certainly understand the frustration this strike is putting on students and family members.... It's too bad they can't sit down and settle this out...

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That would be true (working harder and doing more for less) if it was applied evenly to all Canadians. You make that statement as though the only Canadians that count are the ones working in the PS. When the PS keeps expecting less work and more pay, the "working harder and going more for less" gets applied doubly to the private sector. Wynnes pension plan is a gold star example of this.

The PS seems to view themselves as entitled royalty while the private sector are the slave class. That has to change. Most of the world has figured out (think of Greece here - Ontario is no different) that we have been living beyond our means for several decades now and things have to change. Private sector labour is very aware of that now. But that insight hasn't made it into either the public sector labour or management - but it will at some point.

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Originally Posted by werner.reiche

That would be true (working harder and doing more for less) if it was applied evenly to all Canadians. You make that statement as though the only Canadians that count are the ones working in the PS. When the PS keeps expecting less work and more pay, the "working harder and going more for less" gets applied doubly to the private sector. Wynnes pension plan is a gold star example of this.

The PS seems to view themselves as entitled royalty while the private sector are the slave class. That has to change. Most of the world has figured out (think of Greece here - Ontario is no different) that we have been living beyond our means for several decades now and things have to change. Private sector labour is very aware of that now. But that insight hasn't made it into either the public sector labour or management - but it will at some point.

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"working harder and doing more for less" should not be acceptable for anyone in Canada.... Public service workers or not... my comment wasn't to defend teachers but to defend a Canadian way of life....

If we as a society believe/accept "working harder and doing more for less" as the new norm, we are all doomed.... (and I am not just talking about teachers here) The rich will only become richer and the middleclass will fall.... Without the middleclass we do not have an economy.

Now anyone know what they are on strike for? I mean really know, not hearsay.... It would be really nice to have a debate knowing the true facts, not the gossip...

If the education minister doesn't know there is not much chance any of us do. Hence why I said it's all a CHARADE.

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Originally Posted by Hunter John

The whole thing is a charade. My buddies wife is a SS schoolteacher in Peel and they told the kids to clean out their lockers when the strike began as the year was over .
2 . When the strikes started the Education Minister said repeatedly " I DONT KNOW WHAT THE ISSUE'S ARE " and then we find out the strike may be illegal because they are striking over PROVINCIAL ISSUES just reeks of BULLSHYTE .
3 Frank ,from what I know about you here on the forum I like . But making a comparison to teachers taking a bit of a haircut and to do a bit more for less to a 3rd world system is laughable. And no I am not a teacher hater or jealous of what they have as I generally like teachers and the work they do for our/my kids . I also work in the education system and am a PS employee but even this numpty can see the system is broken.

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I wasn't trying to compare teachers or public service workers getting a haircut to a 3rd world system... I was saying if we as Canadians (not just teachers) accept working more for less as a norm, we are screwed.

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Originally Posted by fratri

"working harder and doing more for less" should not be acceptable for anyone in Canada.... Public service workers or not... my comment wasn't to defend teachers but to defend a Canadian way of life....

If we as a society believe/accept "working harder and doing more for less" as the new norm, we are all doomed.... (and I am not just talking about teachers here) The rich will only become richer and the middleclass will fall.... Without the middleclass we do not have an economy.

Now anyone know what they are on strike for? I mean really know, not hearsay.... It would be really nice to have a debate knowing the true facts, not the gossip...

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It's way too late for that sentiment,fratri. The genie is already out of the bottle. Remember when the auto sector hit the skids and everyone thought it was a wonderful idea for GM to slash the work force,reduce wages and double up on assembly rates? Well,that's now the "new normal" and what we have today is what everyone else thought was a good idea. After all,they were simply low-life unskilled wrench turners,right? We warned,at the time,that it was a fool's errand to lump everyone in together,but,the ones who howled for our heads the most were the teachers while they looked down their noses at the "great unwashed."
I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a shred of sympathy for teachers. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and they sure can't say that they weren't warned.