Yup.
Listen to the ICU doctor’s in Italy. They know the truth. Slow it down now in Canada and we won’t regret it. Do nothing and if you are a boomer you may die.
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Yup.
Listen to the ICU doctor’s in Italy. They know the truth. Slow it down now in Canada and we won’t regret it. Do nothing and if you are a boomer you may die.
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Some projections say 70% of world will be infected by this virus (that is a big guess). What is KNOWN is mortality rate is 3.6% of infected population.
That means 200 million could die from this. However, even if they are wrong by 10x ... that is still 20 million ... still a lot of people.
Ireland is shutting down schools and childcare centers. Any indoor gatherings of more than 100 people is canceled. Also outdoor events of more than 500 people until the end of the month.
They have 40 something confirmed cases and 18 possible. Nice to see them take it so seriously lol.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/heal...shut-1.4200977
Other places are trying to sell rolls of toilet paper for a 100 bucks a roll lol. Others offer with free NHL's playoff tickets to help boost the sales. [emoji1787]
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/279...ve-skyrocketed
In the local news another 17 new Ontario cases today.
It will be at 200 like I said before the end of the week. Big jumps coming in the next few days. Toronto st Patrick's parade is canceled so is the Toronto 420 a number of concerts .
https://globalnews.ca/news/6665944/o...cases-march12/
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More Ontario news all Ontario schools will be closed from march 16th till April 5. Then they will go back on strike hahah
http://www.yrdsb.ca/schools/Reposito...ronavirus.aspx
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https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=e2bfc9c0_2
Globally
125 048 confirmed (6729new)
4613 deaths (321 new)
China
80 981confirmed (26new)
3173 deaths (11 new)
Outside of China
44 067 confirmed (6703new)
1440 deaths (310 new)
117 countries/territories/ areas (4 new)
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...infection.html
Canada is 138 now..... and our PM is even in self quarantine.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...w-coronavirus/
Stock market and dollar ... down!
Italy has 2313 new cases and new 196 deaths for a total of 12462 cases and 827 deaths total.
Do you remember the swine flue in 2009 -2010
575,400 died world wide ,12,400 in the USA
61,000,000 were infected world wide.
Guys this is no worse than the flue do not get so riled up over it. The media is playing all of us.
These numbers vary widely if you Goggle the facts
.... yeah... like the Spanish Flu ... atleast that is what the percentages look like.... atleast 5X the flu in fatalitiesQuote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
https://www.oodmag.com/community/sho...=1#post1106013
I certainly do and it was pretty chit!Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE
I just started working in a management role and was the one up for all the meet and greets with the city folk. Of course, I got it, it was like having a pickup truck parked on your chest. I can remember laying in bed, freezing my jazz off and dripping sweat.
Lesson learned, is all I have to say.
Better to be prepared than to be a statistic.
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Well I think an ER doc in Italy will disagree. The flu death rate is seldom above 1/1000. This is way higher
The hospitals in Italy cannot cope.
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I just tried to go to Walmart to pick up a few things and when I walked through the doors one of the check out guys was just leaving and told me to not even to bother trying to shop. The line up was down past the toy department with 4 checkouts open. Looked like black Friday all over again.
Ditto what oaknut said, better to be prepared than a statistic...
Durham region has shut down all it's public and high schools for 4 to 6 weeks as of tomorrow. They said they'd make the time up in the summer... To me it's better to be proactive than reactive...
If you dare to believe it this explains why that one is a big deal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFh...lWIbYXKwPb24kQ
That is a very good one!Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
He has a good one on Lyme disease too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xXrN-w4-JM
Oh and the Sportsman show is cancelled.
https://fishncanada.com/news/toronto...o-coronavirus/
Europe is now the epicenter of this.
China will be back to work in no time
As they have had only 8 new cases in all China today. They say the quick response to build new hospitals helped they are now closing some of them down.
I Ithink it was Greece had 85 lives lost in 24 hrs today.
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Yeah, I watched that yesterday ... it's pretty informative.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
According to some it's not a matter of a month or two, we are talking much more than that so China is not out of it yet, not until we have a vaccin.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
I'm not sure of anything and life goes on but I won't be planning any personal or business travel. Averaging 65 days per year oversea it fits me perfectly, plenty of time to enjoy some fishing and hunting :)
They are saying vaccine will take +12 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by seabast
Why am I watching a news channel that has a header
Canada’s only 24 hour news channel
And I watching President Trump , Vice President Pence. And six or more medical experts telling what measures their taking for their citizens
Where’s my Canadian leaders telling what their going to do for my fellow Canadians oh yeah on 6 week hiatus
Fancy socks can’t find a pair
He was on , you were watching the wrong channel. Not his fault...yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
Trudeau had to call his boss Mr Trump, to be told what to do. No joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
So many of you folks look up to trump and his policies.......so what is the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
The problem is Trudeau is not a leader, Mr. Trump isQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
I’d take Harper over either of them.
The problem is that we have not been appointed to run a country by getting second place. We want someone to lead the country and not need to be told what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
People look up to Trump because of what he is doing, he is leading regardless of what Pelosi and her band of morons attempts. He has squashed Trudeau on more than one occasion, none of it for the betterment of Canada.
Trudeau is far to busy crying, apologizing, handing out 250 million and jet setting to be a leader. He looks like a kid with the keys to daddy's vault.
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Sorry..... but nobody (????), looks up to trump. Are you living in the real world . He denied any heath crisis at all until Wednesday He thought it was a sham by the Democrats. How self centered can you be? He is an embarrassment to humans. POS.
Most of the USA voted for him because he has leader qualities. And he's done great things for his country. Our idiot has no leadership qualities whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Do elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Accused of rigging the vote, no proof from seagulls on the other side.
Attempted impeachment, crushed.
Employment rate, way up.
He even forced Canada to start taking their antibiotic and hormone laden dairy products, Trudeau said "oh by all means"
Highest party polarization on record.
Will be re elected as it sits at over 50 percent of voters would vote Trump.
Like I said, seagulls..... all they do is squawk and crap on everything.
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He is going to crush the next election his supporters are bigger than his first victory. Wait and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
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Maybe. I would agree with you in a January. Two black swans are going to kill the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
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Normally I would agree with you, hands down! But as I watched Trump today, as well as the last few days, he was embarrassment to the American people. If the issue wasn't so serious, it would be laughable to watch him. Very dangerous times in the world right now and dancing around party politics adds to that dangerQuote:
Originally Posted by oaknut;110720[B
Well, many have said that one risk of the Trump presidency is that there may be a crisis that requires a real leader and he will either rise to it or not. There is little doubt that he was badly fumbling this as recently as early this week when he told Americans that “it would all go away”. Fortunately, he has no issue closing down borders and shutting things down; it perhaps should have been done earlier and our own village idiot still doesn’t get it. Perhaps he is getting the message now while there is still time to get ahead of it. I have to think that the nature of the USA, with a higher concentration of cross-country and regional flights than anywhere in the world, makes them more vulnerable to this thing than anywhere else in the world. Let’s hope they figure it out quickly, our wagon is hitched to theirs.
That Joe Rogan Michael Osterholm video has great info, and an interesting bit on CWD in the 20-25 minute area.
Smart thing to watch in the absence of hockey.
It's a bit of a funny situation how many people get mad at the media frenzy and fear mongering when in reality the media may be doing the most to curb this thing.
Let's consider for the moment that in canada a few weeks back most thought it was nothing to worry about. The media has now whipped up a virus frenzy. People are out shopping like it's the last black friday ever, which can't hurt local economies. The one thing that has everyone starting to socially isolate is the news. Social isolation is the main way the spread of this may be slowed.
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Hunt camp method of conserving toilet paper in the outhouse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C9WePvM80w
Look whats going on inside China some cities are in total lockdown, some look like ghost cities. Wuhan looks like Chernobyl, fully suited people and trucks spraying chemicals around the clock. Many more deaths then reported. The numbers here of infected are going to multiply by the day, we are no where near controlling this yet. Those who have been laughing at the media hype, take a look at the amount of infected 2 weeks ago here compared to today. A month from now may change peoples minds
It's already popped up north of the city, Barrie has one and they closed down the Beaver Valley ski place. Just a matter of time.
And why are we surprised this is happening?
It is Mother Nature's way of cleaning house.
As hunter's we see animal population cycles.
Why should humans be treated any differently?
The world is over populated and leaders are looking to move and colonize other planets before the SHTF.
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/03/healt...ria/index.html
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...ation-reports/
https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=dcd46351_2
Globally
142 539 confirmed (9769 new)
5393 deaths (438 new)
China
81021 confirmed (18 new)
3194 deaths (14 new)
Outside of China
61 518 confirmed (9751 new)
2199 deaths (424 new)
135countries/territories/ areas (13new)
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...infection.html
Canada : 244
79% of cases are travellers and 8% are close contacts of travellers
Apparently still no screening at the airport from Italy last I heard... but hey...it just too Justlied #FakePM Trudeau's wife coming down with it before they even started to use their place for a hat holder or black faces ..... now if hey would just try using it a bit more... probably too late to do anything relevant now though....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...anada-measures
Justin Trudeau announces sweeping steps to tackle coronavirus in Canada
Prime minister delivers address from self-imposed quarantine
Parliament shuttered and curbs on international travel
Canada has unveiled aggressive new measures to contain the coronavirus outbreak, shutting down parliament and advising against foreign travel, even as Justin Trudeau urged citizens to remain calm in a national address delivered from self-imposed quarantine.
British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec have all banned events larger than 250 people. Ontario, the country’s most populous province, will close schools for two additional weeks following spring break, as will Quebec.
Late on Friday, officials in Toronto, the country’s largest city, announced the closure of all child care facilities, public libraries and community centres. They also announced the surprise cancellation of all spring break camps and urged residents to reconsider taking public transit.
Ok, here's one for the books. A friend of mine just got back this afternoon from spending 3 weeks abroad touring China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, and Taiwan. No screening, no asking where you've been, no 2 week self quarantine, nothing. Welcome back to Canada and go ahead and spread the virus. WTF is with this government...
Everyone is in a state of shock, panic driven, and yet it seems we're not doing a thing to curtail it...
Oh we are we are spending millions chasing down the infected and who they had contact with. Every case probably has a ton of workers involved.. They will investigate and quarantine them after spreading it . Then the ones that get away will pass it on to other and so on. They cant catch all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo D
Mind you it's a good system they are doing but it's ment to fail at a certain point in time. They just dont have the man power to find every person who has contracted the virus. .
But your right they should be doing more when they first arrive into Canada.
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About 2 weeks ago the Rebel had a news reports talking to people coming from Iran, they were not checked at all here. The one guy was going to self quarantine away from his family and even had the person picking him up wear a mask and bring him a clean change of clothes to change into before he went home. It is in an earlier post. In the early stages of the spread catching even a couple could slow down the transmission but too late now... 244 today... about 200 in one week...and if 79% were travellers.... then of the total 192 were outside cases.... even catching 10% that is 19 people not riding taxis, subway, GO etc. Looking at Italy and Europe we can expect the number will probably double that if not several times by next weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo D
Our useless gov't did NOTHING but form a committee .... the only time they started to show some mental activity is after Trudope's wife caught it and came home with a fever....obviously still no screening, so if she had the fever when she got home, given the high contagion period she was obviously contagious on the plane, in the airport and coming home and probably going to the hospital, add in security contat..... if they had checked for fevers and she had one coming off the plane, simple, off to quarantine ... but now our PM is in self quarantine....
Come on people, no matter how much screening was-is done, it was coming here anyway. Hundreds of thousands of cars and transport trucks come across our southern border daily.
Funny I say the same thing about gun bans.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
But if it saves one life right? Lmao!
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Agreed. Nothing banned by this sitting of parliament. For the good of all you want to take away my ability to travel. For the good of all you want to take away my ability to own certain guns. Notice I said ability ,not right.
This “episode” will change the world as it should. Turns out China don’t only produce cheap merchandise. They also produce badly needed pharma products. Hopefully the idiots who run the world pick up on that. If I was Jason Kenney or any other Premier for that matter I would do everything possible to create a replacement supply for whatever that corrupt Chinese regime supplies us. It will be more expensive to produce here but being held hostage by your enemy is insane. Tourism will be seriously wounded for quite a while. The trickle down economic effects of scale back will trigger recessions. One irony is the Ontario teachers unions just lost their blackmail weapon. The kids are out of school anyway. Panic will quickly fade, but it will change how people consume until this virus gets controlled.
The virus wont be controlled here. It's going to spread like fire. Who gets very sick from it depends. Our only hope is a vaccine can be discovered sooner rather then later. People here dont self quarantine so theres really no sense to be closing down everything like their doing. There prolly thousands here that have it already and dont even know it.
It won’t be controlled anywhere. We are too afraid of offending anyone to impose any real quarantines.
Terry is right, the idiocy of our relentless greed has sent all sorts of manufacturing overseas, including vital medicines which are expected to be in short supply. The chickens are coming home to roost.
39 new cases reported in Ontario today. Last 4 days, 17, 19, 24, 39. That's a trend that says this is a long way from being slowed down.
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Yep I was just going to post that thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by GW11
It's just going to continue some big jumps in the coming days. Remember there is a 4 day time before you know you are even sick.
The link the Ontario 39 cases on the closer and hut removal date . 14 in Toronto alone [emoji54]
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/he...d-19-1.4834821
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I am sure this has been around for a while now. I got sick back in February. It lasted for 16days..i finely got to see a doctor becouse i was just not gett8ng better. Thy never did any tests.just gave me some antibiotics. .and I finely got over it.
It's funny, looking at the listed symptoms whatever spread through my area a month ago covered all of them. I was hit with it and spent 3 days on the couch.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
Same here but in late December finally had to go to the doctors was wiped for all the first ice and I didn't even think about ice .2 weeks before I went didn't clear bad bronchitis didnt even check just prescribed heavy antibiotics and a puffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Definitely put a damper on first ice the worst I ever been slept for day and a half.
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Wuhan city of 11 million
https://youtu.be/luztqxUBvZo
.... Yep.... Liberal way of handling a crisis..... lie...
Bill Blair
@BillBlair
We have enhanced screening measures in place at all international airports, as well as land/rail/marine ports of entry. We are taking the necessary steps to ensure that Canadians are safe in the face of COVID-19.
To which the actual reality is...
https://twitter.com/GlenfordCanning/...13044954505217
Glen Canning
@GlenfordCanning
I’ve been in the Canada customs line at Pearson for over an hour along with hundreds of people. Six agents on duty, zero screening, no masks, no sanitizer in site. This is as unsafe as it can get.
After all.... one huge room, hundreds or people all coming from all over the world, like budgets balancing themselves and ethics matter and openness.... magic and unicorns will happen all by itself....
I mean magic happens... look at what Global warming has done.... the trees outside Justin's window in Ottawa of him working from home are already green....
https://twitter.com/somecanuckguy/st...30114773540864
original post...
https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/st...69157940858881
#WheresJustLied
We shouldn’t expect any more than a pack of lies out of Blair !! No surprise here !!Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
.... 39 new in Ontario...
https://torontosun.com/news/provinci...of-coronavirus
Nationally, using the latest figures from Public Health Canada, the number of confirmed cases stands at 313
P.S.
W.H.O.
Globally
153 517confirmed(10982new)
5735deaths (343 new)
China
81 048 confirmed (27 new)
3204 deaths (10 new)
Outside of China
72 469confirmed (10955)
2531deaths (333new)
143 countries/territories/ areas (09 new)
Italy had 3497 New Cases and 173 New Deaths
We were just at our local Beaverton independent. It was no lines seems the rushes are over . But the they had no fresh meats nothing just a few peices of lamb steaks mmm. They are so good but I wont pay full price for them lol. No bacon to bread no soup limited broth no eggs no pancakes mix. No cream no frozen veggies no on sale frozen pizza there was not much of anything lol but they had chocolate milk [emoji1787].. toilet paper shelves empty.
One guy was mad he wanted to go grocery shopping and there wasn't much if you had a list of things.
Going to be a short supply on meats maybe they cant just make meat . Unless everyone is just going to eat what they have and not buy any more for the year . Couldn't believe it entirely empty meat fridge 40 ft long nothing in it sold out [emoji107]
More veil coming [emoji106] mmm
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Alberta has closed school's until next start of the school year in September. 5 months off wow
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...hools-daycares
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https://www.ottawamatters.com/local-...fficer-2167254
Ottawa seems to be thinking clearer at the moment.
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And theres thousands more that are infected and dont even know it. Let's see who still laughing at the hyped media month from now...Quote:
Originally Posted by mosquito
Just like illegal handguns,:shades: the virus will get in whether you check at the border or not. If you can't keep out something that you can see, there is no chance to keep out what you can't see.:scream: It is irrelevant, as we are spreading the virus internally now.
Let us put things in perspective.
Data from the CDC. Your welcome to browse the tables from previous years and draw your own conclusion independent of the media.
CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza
Please explain how this new covid-19 is any different?
It would be that there is a sudden surge and happening all at once. It is overwhelming the health care system with the sudden rush.
You hear them say they need to flatten the curve so the system can cope but the yearly end result will be the same.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html
Exactly, the same number of sick people, we just do not want them all at the same time.
Please look at 3 or 4 of the first 7 posts on this thread, and who said them........ Sensationalism, hype. Back-tracking much, they are....Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Well, its definitely changing people's behavior! Woodroffe ave N right now is smooth sailing with sight of maybe 10 other vehicles. 417 is dead, 416 dead. Ottawa folk are definitely hiding out.
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Finally someone with some brains to lay it out like it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Nonsense! The first posts were made over a month ago. The media was running around with their hair on fair causing sheer panic among those who weren't smart enough to think for themselves,hence,the run on medical supplies and (of all things) toilet paper. Really?? So,here we are almost two months later with much more accurate data. Is it serious? Yes. Is the sky falling? Of course not. Most people who have symptoms won't even realize it. Unfortunately,people with compromised immune systems and underlying illnesses are particularly at risk and need to take extra precautions. Simple hand washing and social distancing will likely eliminate the bug as we're witnessing the rapid decrease in Asia right now. If nothing else,this will give us time to develop vaccines the same as H1N1,SARS,MERS until the next big thing comes along,inevitably.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
"The Next Big Thing"
Saw this on Facebook yesterday
https://i.imgur.com/QNCaqvw.jpg
This one is going to kill many more then the annual flu. It's only started here.
Rebuttal ?Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
Explain why satellite images show massive graves being built in Iran, Italys death count and infection rate is increasing by the day? China death count is far higher then reported, laugh all you want the truth will become very obvious a month from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
His reply to your comment about media sensationalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by delmer
Last week in Italy people were appointed to walk through the masses and pick who get a respirator and who dies. A nurse that was working there described it as a war zone. They have all but given up in Italy because they just can't keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Anyone who thinks that remotely resembles the flu has to give it a shake.
Will it be that bad here, I hope not.
People keep talking about seeing less cases in Chinas areas, areas that are still under lockdown, well, no caca. I think things have the opportunity to sweep through a free roaming state far quicker. Look at what China is doing to slow the spread, sanitizing streets and complete lockdowns. Here, "arriving from italy? Please dome sit with the 1600 other people in the airport!"
On a case by case basis this virus is nothing major. It's the speed of transmission that is the issue.
I think everyone should consider that Irans Coronavirus strategy favored economy over travel restrictions, sound familiar?
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Its going to be far worse here because people are not taking this serious and now its far to late to control it.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Pretty sure you meant H1N1 which you are correct in saying there is a vaccine for. As for SARs and MERs no vacines or treatment exist for these viral pathogens. They just ran their course before all the smart people could figure one out . Same thing may or may not happen with this one. They are working hard to develop one but no guarantee of success.Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
I have no doubt you were sick but if anitbiotics worked it was not Covid-19. Antibiotics have zero effect on viral pathogens. They only work for bacterial pathogens.Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchhunter
Will not be surprised if the death count hits 1000/day south of our border at the peak of this outbreak
https://youtu.be/RYtL1crnZhI
And how many thousand of snowbirds are yet to return that could start a new spread
Schools are closed casinos are not lol
As for your last 2 posts, S8472, accurate, but please do not let facts get in the way of conjecture. It will confuse others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Species8472
See post #267.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Casino here is closed, courts shut down except bail courts.....Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
No bail lock up em up lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
They can come back when the spread is over send out the message lol.
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If you really want to take a deep dive with real time statistics have a look at this website. Very informative and a true representation of what is currently happening worldwide.
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...-demographics/
We are 417 cases and 4 deaths
Bc confirmed 3 more deaths at the same care facility as the first one.
Also 30 new cases for bc
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The link I posted a few days ago to the live steam it was updated when I wrote the 417
It now 421 cases.
We are catching up to Japan fast . Rumor has they may not be doing alot of testing who knows. But with a population of almost the USA in a space almost a 3rd of Ontario I'm surprised the numbers are so low.
https://youtu.be/qgylp3Td1Bw
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Wish I had a date on that live chart it shows the update version when you play it but if you look at the link is shows this.
In the pic Canada 54
USA 330 something
Japan 440 or something
Now we are at Japan was at 421 the USA in well over 4 thousand
And Japan 8oo and something https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...35e43e0028.jpg
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441 Canada is on the rise will be 500 by the time a wake up in the morning. [emoji107]
20 cases in the last hour
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Will next Monday hit 1000?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Based on the geometric growth rate right now by Monday we will be well over 1000. States will be well over 10,000 by then.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
I think so to. My guess is the mild "stall" in numbers today is that testing hasn't caught up with those waiting to be tested. Realistically, the numbers are probably much higher than advertised right now. I think we'll be at 1000 well before the weekend.
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People are still getting the flu. On top of COVID 19. COVID doesnt replace the flu, its in addition to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
I'm not sure I said I think Wednesday when there was 40 I said it would be 200 by the end of the weekend. By Friday night at 1130 pm it was almost 200 by the weekend ens was like 360.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
1000 by next Monday is totally possible maybe before that.
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Well, it seems there is a bright side to this virus after all. Because factories have either slowed production or shut down completely, air and water systems are actually much cleaner now. Who'da thunk it?
Yea, and gas is 87 cents !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sawbill
Bad part is no coffee shops open !!!
72.9 in Melbourne
They are open drive thru is open. Lines could be long . I have only scanned 2 coffees in the roll up usually I would of gone a dozen times [emoji107].Quote:
Originally Posted by rick_iles
Yes the gas is cheap hasn't been this low in 16 or 17 years. [emoji106]
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Just got Email from boss. We are Exempt from all travel and Border Restrictions. We may be Exempt from Hours of Service Regulations if they declare a State of Emergency.
Wife works in health care, and Canadian Government has placed me in a required class/service.
My question is if all the people are hiding at home and too scared to go out, how much stuff can they be buying?
If you’re hauling food, there won’t be a shortage of buyers anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
You do the same as the video Canadianman shared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwalker
You go out get your supply's and get back to isolation . Might be the only time you get out that week.
I'm glad im not in town lol. I can walk for miles out in the back and not see a sole. [emoji106]
Being stuck in the city that would suck I will have bon fires still. Leafs gotta get cleaned up ,winter came to fast before the clean up. Lots to do under isolation gardens to plant lol.
Have fun driving on baron highways , it will be nice for a change lol.
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I'm going to comment again.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Maybe a 1000 by Friday.
Maybe already? Ottawa going to be epicenter of Canada? Community spread.
People walking around for weeks undiagnosed all through Ottawa. Oops.
https://nationalpost.com/news/local-...9-8cef4fb27dc2
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Still staying over 3.5% fatality rate... atleast 10X the usual flu...
https://www.sciencealert.com/the-new...hing-in-common
"While this is not the same as its mortality rate, given many people may be infected but not realise it, it is significantly higher than seasonal flu, which typically kills 0.1 percent of patients."
Canada is at 424
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...infection.html
https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=9fda7db2_2
Globally
167 511confirmed (13 903new)
6606deaths (862 new)
Germany, Spain and Italy have their numbers going up fast... cases showing up in the Caribbean now.... Canada's cases are 74% travellers.... and no screening at the airports here still.
Well considering that the most successful treatments so far have been with a combination of HIV and Malaria drugs, there could be a lot of that moving around too. Just don't want to haul TP. Likely to get robbed for that stuff....:scream:Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Yes, people are still getting the flu but you can only die once. One or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_saber
I suggest everyone be safe and follow the guidance below!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f518092afe.jpg
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For anyone thinking it's no worse than the flu ??. Tell me why we just declared a state of emergency in Ontario?.
The regular flu does not shut down schools , child care , casinos ,restaurants , public attractions, bars ,they do not shut down borders over the typical flu. The typical flu does not close international flights, cancel or change bus routes,lock down old age homes.
We are making history they typical flu does not get listed in these categories of sars ,mer, Ebola, or swine.
Yes the regular flu kills thousands over the year its doesn't kill kill thousands in a few days to a few weeks.
We are now in a state of emergency in Ontario and it going to be like that for some time. Our kids will not be going back to school in 2 or 3 weeks. We will be in the thick of it they wont send them back.
Keep travel open this let's keep bringing in our doors.
Here is a thought. The United states banned travel from Europe right.
Well we didnt they are traveling to Canada then flying to the USA ops. Just another loop hole ,they may of changed this already but it was happening. Just passing it off the next Canadian as they head into the us from Canada.
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Too many people are still not taking this seriously and are so complacent.
Never thought I would say this as a conservative minded person, but a government order to stay home except essential services is probably a good thing. Our health leaders are speaking clearly and slowly and deliberately and not enough are listening
Weeks of happy fishing ahead!
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7b94a70d07.jpg
Looks to me like air traffic has ramped up
Good luck all, its far to late to control this now. Dont worry it's just all hyped media to grab an audience...lol.
Don’t worry be happy I’m on my way up town to have lunch with my buddies
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f2b4f983a9.jpg
That's usually how mind control agents are delivered however, now they are just spraying out Zoloft. Gotta get the city folk to mellow out. [emoji1787]Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
I'm sitting here watching the flurry of people in and out of the grocery stores. I live in a pretty small town but it funny how the shelves are bare and the folks are packed in like sardines. They think they are beating something yet at a crucial time in the spread "let's go snuggle with hundreds of strangers!".
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We were warned a month ago. Every disaster movie starts with ignoring the scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
That's where I will be tomorrow and Thursday to finish up my simcoe ice season. Yesterday was good me another guy must of gotten 60 to 70 jumbos by noon. But I hear it was better the day before as the bite was hard. I kept 12 and buddy kept 15 the rest went back to swimm again. [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Then the sucker fishing the river and perch again lol. Is essential travel include going fishing for suckers that you will toss back in the lake[emoji1787][emoji1787].
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I was out yesterday too, looking for ling, managed a smallish female pike and a 20" eye. Both were returned unharmed as the pike looked like she was ready to pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
We've got 12" of slush with an inch of ice on top with a solid 20" underneath. I will be good for a while.
My brothers buddy was out and had a good snack of jumbos from simcoe too.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...58505e0626.jpg
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Nice work great looking pike.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
Is that a Shakespeare ugly stick? Looks like one I have 2 they are great rods very sensitive with plenty of backbone. Have a light for perch and a med light for whitties.
And too keep things on topic you think the fish can catch the covid 19 [emoji1787][emoji106][emoji39]
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That's the ugly stick, I like it. I only bought it to try as I've never jogged with one before this year. Will be adding more to the arsenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
The fish are smarter than we are, the have self quarantined for years now. They always seem to die as soon as they swim into the grocery stores.
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Even if a vaccine can be produced for all it won't do us much good. Millions will refuse a vaccine based on religious reasons. How will our government address this matter if or when a vaccine is available.
What will it really matter? Say we get a vaccine in 6 months, it'll be too little too late. This is happening now.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
Religions reasoning wouldn't matter. If you don't want the vaccine it's not like you can hurt the ones that have recieved it.
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Just liquidated all my funds this morning. Everything I have ever read about investing or have been taught, says to stay invested for the long term. However my fears are that we are in a recession already, even though no one wants to admit it, and it won't take long til we get into a depression. Last depression was 100 years ago......crazy to think like this I know, but what if its true? What if we go into a depression?
We dont truly have a flu vaccine either, we have a flu shot. The flu shot does not guarantee one wont get the flu.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
This is a short term situation, the markets will climb. As soon as China returns to work we will have cheap crap to fight over!Quote:
Originally Posted by huntervinni
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Maybe there's a bright side for me!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...61cc02f2a6.jpg
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Yep crashed last week bigg jump Friday up and big jump back down yesterday. Stock markets could also close down a while who knows what's going on . Already talk of it trump said no as of right now but who knows next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
The time to pull out was 2 or 3 weeks ago we knew it wound fall. Also if everyone pulls out it will damage the entire the market for way longer.
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I heard today from a friend that we could see the peak in 8 to 12 weeks. Wow just to think months and months of this. [emoji107]
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First Ontario death was a 70 year old man from in barrie.
6 others critical in bc
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It's been interesting reading people's responses from the early days in Jan to this mornings entries. How the "tone" has changed.
My fiancé and I were on the side of we need to act fast. Back then in mid February, the early signs of trouble in Italy were showing. Fast forward to today.....And we screwed the pooch. Airports should have closed a couple weeks ago. To date, the vast majority of confirmed cases are foreign travel. Community travel is now starting.
Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
Instead of flattening the curve that way and then, when we had the best chance possible to limit it's spread, with the least amount of pain. Today, we're taking measures, that all but certainly are going to come with a lot of economic fallout, as well.
Look out West, Alberta. Already reeling from job losses, foreclosures, suicides.....How many of them, or those already unemployed are likely to find work anytime soon.Yesterday, the IMF was talking about global orchestrated stimulus packages. The FED and the BoC have gutted rates, JT announced 50b today, buying up insured mortgages from the banks. Worded differently, he's hoping to limit the damage foreclosures will do. If that snowball gets going, look out.... Small businesses are going to suffer...large....So will tax revenue......
A couple days ago, I was reading friends celebrating the price of gas. Not fully understanding what that means.
And on, and on and on.
Will the markets recover? in time, yes. But when?
Think about the millions, the Feds are thinking about when they talk CPP, or Ms Wynne was thinking of when she created ORPP. Millions of Canadians are approaching retirement, now, without near enough. 30% of what little they had just disappeared.
And on
And on
Lets look at Ontario, and what's been done since 2008.
Not much. Here we are today, with a long, laundry list of problems, some serious ( like 800,00 with GPs, people struggling to pay Hydro, deficits and debt up to our eyeballs). Ontario's ability to weather this, financially or other is already limited. Tell me, in the face of this, just how important teachers are again?
I said many times, the scariest thing about Covid was how fast it was spreading. And despite hows its crippled Italy, how there Drs are having to choose who to help, and who not. Despite the empty streets and highways, despite so much.
Air travel was allowed to continue until yesterday.
I can't see the future, I'm betting history is not going to be kind. Nor will the next few weeks and months.
Forget to include. The fiance and I talked about this a few weeks ago as well. One thing, we Canadians might have going for us, is that except for a few notable exceptions, our population density is small. Unlike a lot of the EU, and other countries. That should help us, or atlas contain it to a few hotbeds.
JBen what happened to your alias?
Community spread in Toronto and again more shut downs .
Any restaurant or bar that stays open could receive a 25 thousand $ fine . Drive thru only or take out until the virus hits the store and they completely shutdown.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...read-1.5499768
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lol, I brain cramped and deleted the email it utilized. :) Had to use that as this account was de-activated by request. So had this re-activated.
Never liked it anyway. Ive always preferred to be known by name.
Was reading today a twitter post thats going viral from someone in Italy. Describing the 6 stages we can expect. Cant share it here as we can on social media. I strongly advise people to google it, read it. One of the stages, I think its 4 or 5 pertains to "population" and this is where unlike a lot of the EU, many other countries, our size/population is for once going to help. Any who, he describes how people started fleeing hotbeds. Because symptoms don't show for awhile, as more and more fled area's, the spread got worse. No doubt that will occur here as well, but it's not like the EU, where the next city, country is just 30 min or an hour away.
The FEDS are saying they have some kind of major economic statement for tomorrow. Aid measures most likely my guess.
/looks West
/looks at the mess here
Crap happens, and while no-one hon could have seen this coming. We all should have known that sooner or later an ill wind of some type would. But instead.........
Found a version that can be put here.
https://www.boredpanda.com/coronavir...mpaign=organic
Short term is what? 1 month, 3 months a year? The USA is the financial hub of the world economy and this virus is literally just starting in the USA. My money is invested there and here but if our neighbour to the south blows up it will affect the world. Like I said......depression doesn't look to be too far away.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
I really shouldn't speak too loud as I don't have any skin in the game. The jar in the fence technique is far safer.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntervinni
The only outlook I can give is in the form of a question. How often does it do a person any good to panic? Never.
A full depression is unlikely given that by the time this takes to work through does not look to be in the years. We won't know for sure until we see how China fares once they are out and about.
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China has been untruthful from the beginning so I wouldn't believe anything that they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
There's no doubt about that but if China comes out of quarantine and again, start dropping like flies we will know this will be a grueling journey.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntervinni
Don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful you get to keep as much of your money as possible and come out on the good side of things. I'm also hoping we all stay on the right side of the lawn.
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Where’s anyone going to flee TO ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Hunt camps in Muskoka ??
Its starting up this way, lots of foot traffic into the unplowed cottage driveways.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
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Just saw some pictures of Toronto and the streets are empty [emoji54] wow
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You can't contain this when its face is showing up across the country and the numbers are multiplying. Wishful thinking, but not reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
My Wifey decided to not pay attention to it a couple weeks ago because it was just hyped media tricking people and is really a big joke on everyone. She's in denial like many, to afraid to face reality. Trudeau can't shake his magical wand and create a covid-19 tax to solve this problem, like he did with carbon tax.
108 cases confirmed now in Toronto
I have clients that have relatives in China. I also have family in Italy that I communicate with all the time. When China went into shut down it was a complete shut down. No one was allowed to leave their homes.......the government was flying drones looking for people out on the streets, even if they were trying to get a breath of fresh air, and arresting them. My cousins in Italy are losing their jobs cause their employers are shutting down and even though the government is promising support, its too little too late. My fear is not so much us, here in Canada, its the USA and what its going to do there.Quote:
Originally Posted by oaknut
I'm usually a calm and collective guy and I rode out the 2008 crisis which rebounded nicely for me but we are in uncharted waters right now and I hope I'm wrong but what if I'm right?
U. S. Debt. $23,473,311,137,021.... At 97.7 debt to GDP. If you are counting on the USA you are out of luck.....:scream: 23 trillion, 473 billion......Quote:
Originally Posted by huntervinni
A while back someone did the calculation of the US trying to pay off its debt. Short of finding a massive mountain of solid gold, it's virtually impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman
Global StatisticsQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
At the end of the 3rd quarter of 2019, United States public debt-to-GDP ratio was at 105.5%.[2] The level of public debt in Japan was 246.1% of GDP, in India 61.8%, in 2017 according to the IMF,[3] while the public debt-to-GDP ratio at the end of the 2nd quarter of 2016 was at 70.1% of GDP in Germany, 89.1% in the United Kingdom, 98.2% in France and 135.5% in Italy, according to Eurostat.[4]
If we look at these % - end of the world for the USA is far far away
Everyone is heading out of Toronto. Can't tell you how many cars there are out here loaded with kids and parents. They are all heading to visit grandparents or retired relatives till this blows over.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Wonder how they'll justify it at the funeral.
Or back to family in Eastern Canada, Northern Ontario, Cottages, where ever they can. Whether do or not, in relatively big numbers depends. On how bad it gets. The problem obviously is that it will just worsen the spread. The good news, is that how do we fight raging forest fires. We employ fire breaks. Again, consider the geography of Canada. in short, the distance between major urban centres.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
It's not about containment. On the health front we have to slow the spread, turn the tsunami into a much wider wave, that last longer but isn't as deep. Now look at Ontario, as I said, we already have deep problems in healthcare. I mentioned 800,000 without GPs........Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
But thats just the tip of the iceberg. Lets try to remain positive. So assuming we get through this without becoming another Italy,where we have to let thousands die, anyone want to guess what the medical bill is going to be? How is that going to be paid? Ford is already facing sharp criticism for not tackling the deficit ( ye, he has been fought tooth and nail) but he has also reduced revenues. We have hundreds of thousands struggling to pay Hydro, find good work, this, that and the other...Whatever aid, over and above the medical bill, he/they put out, well theres a price to that.
I'm seeing pictures today of empty subways. How many people are not getting paid...How many are going to lose jobs.how many are going to be unable to make mortgage payments..etc. I suspect we haven't the faintest idea.
Huntervinni
The US scares me. Not only Trump delusional, not only are they way behind the curve trying to slow the spread.
Their healthcare system?
Ive seen wide ranging estimates, from 30% to 70% of the population contracting it. Again, unlike us, their pops and cities are fairly close. Heck its 4 hours to Ottawa from the GTA...6 to Mtl. etc.
Do the math, be conservative.
30% of 350 million.
10% require hospitalization. ICU
Even if they, can somehow meet the wave. Their medical bills?
Something that is not being talked about is the Elephant in the room.
Health care workers( My wife could be sent to any hospital in the province during this), Fire Fighters, EMTs, Police, Aircrews and the Ground crews, Transportation Drivers and their support network. None of them can just pack a bag and head to the cottage, or bolt the door and chill at home.
How many of them are going to be infected or worse, simply because they have to just keep working.
There maybe a few Gold Star Families out of this.
I looked up Canada's GDP.... 56% for 2019. Not to shabby compared to most other industrialized countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbk
You sound confused, your last sentence on post 327 sure sounds like that's what you said...."That should help us, or atlas contain it to a few hotbeds"?.. The hotbeds are gone, now its widespread.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
I will wait a few more days before we decide whether the wife and I, head north to the cottage. Were on an island, so only chosen visitors. Waiting the hear from our son, wondering if he is going to head home from Australia. He is in Med school and they seem to need him at the hospital. There is nothing he can do here. Good Luck to everyone.
What's the deal with the testing? I hear only so many test a day can be done ??
I'm hearing only 20 test a day can be done at Southlake in newmarket.
It this true? Are they only testing majority of the traveler's?
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There is some truth as they are turning away people with symptoms. There is a list of symptoms your question on, if you don't have every symptom they are declining those to be tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Poor choice of words but "partially" true.
If we can "contain" the worst of to the major urban centres, it will help. Again, just look at Canada. Where the major cities are, and the distances between them. A certain amount of people are going to flee, already are from the sounds of it. That's inevitable. But major exodus ( relative term ). Not very easy here...I am not entirely sure what the interior of Italy is like. When people say "Italy" what they are really referring to is Northern Italy. I do know, Italy is small.
I just "fact" checked.
Its 300,000 sq km and has a population of 60million
Ontario
1,000,000 sq km ( true a lot of that is inhospitable) and 13 million people.
Heck, all of Canada is 36 million people.
Im not a disease expert, don't work for the CDC. But Im pretty sure with any disease population density is a big deal. The higher it is, the worse it is
So how do we really know who has it lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by canadaman30
My oldest is in self quarantine but no testing was done . Someone else that lives in the house was at the hospital waited all day they didn't do a test and sent him home and said he may have the virus so self quarantine. He works in a home care facility. .wtf
I find that so odd 20 test a day how does that help lol.
I asked my kid what she needed if I drop off supply's she said mc donalds[emoji1787].
Its hitting home already.
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Damnit fishfood my closest McDonald’s Is 56k away now I’m hungry for fries
I went to the hospital yesterday on the advise of 311 and work health services. I have every one of the symptoms, including having a hard time breathing, to the point of being alarmed. They wouldn't test me, as I havnt been out of the country. My wife was in China, but that was in January. They took an xray, told me I have pneumonia, and sent me home under self quarantine. The doctor said I may or may not have it.....it really doesn't matter apparently, and the numbers on the media, do not match up if theres 1k's like my experience yesterday. This is the worst I've felt as long as I can remember.
Just had me a big feed of McD fries Sunday night on the way home from ice fishing. Only eat there a few times a year but damn i love their fries.Quote:
Originally Posted by js4fn
We don't and we won't. What we do know is its spreading increasingly fast and nothing is going to stop it at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Yep why are we counting and quarantine people if they they only test a percent of the people?.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Im dont have a university math degree . But you cant have a list of numbers of infected when they are only testing some lol
Get well and stay indoors.
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I agree 100% . Thanks. I have a feeling they know exactly what's gonna happen, they just dont have the balls to tell us....Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Or maybe they have the intelligence not to. Not everyone is rational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveBates
Both trueQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Good friends of my father in law returned from New Zealand to Kingston on Sunday, the husband has all the symptoms, they went to a hospital stood in line outside in the cold for 2 hrs, told they weren’t going to be tested and to go home and self isolate.
If the numbers quoted in the media are confirmed tests only and not many are being tested.....oh man....
I guess test kits are limited. Must be thousands have it.
If you have it you might just stay home.
Stay home and don't worry about it.
Factoid: Did you know that the Province of Ontario processes over 100,000 deaths a year?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ntario-canada/
It's not me worried, nor making a big deal...its my 5 yr old and 11yr old having the hard time not "worrying " about it. I dont have the best of health on a good day..Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
We’ll get through this. The world economy will take an awful beating and set us back 40 years, and people will die, but we will get through it if we keep our heads.
I’m posting a speech that the Irish PM gave to his country tonight, REAL leadership at a time when it’s sorely needed
let me know if the link doesn’t work
At this point why bother with mass testing, it will only further wide spread panic. Politicians wont tell us the truth, they will tell us what they want us to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
Sobering...Slainte Mhaith!Quote:
Originally Posted by 73hunter
If you dont worry about it there will another 400 thousand on top of your 100 thousandQuote:
Originally Posted by impact
Other places around the world are having dozens of funerals at the same location all day long.
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Today’s national post
Within four to five weeks, doctors in Canada could be grappling with the kind of grim moral choices facing doctors in Italy, where it is being proposed that only COVID-19 patients who have the greatest chance of survival and those with the most years of potential life left get access to precious ICU beds and ventilators.
Some of the nation’s leading infectious diseases and critical care doctors say that Canada needs to prepare now for a possible total saturation of intensive care resources, and begin discussing the once unthinkable: Which patients should get routed to the ICU and, of those who could hypothetically benefit, who should be left behind?
“I think we should be having these conversations calmly and rationally now as opposed to waiting until it happens, and I want to emphasize if it happens,” said Dr. Anand Kumar, a critical-care doctor at Winnipeg Health Sciences Centre who is also trained in infectious diseases.
Canada to give income support during coronavirus outbreak
So, did the coronavirus cancel social life?
Coronavirus could infected 35 to 70 percent of Canadians, experts say
Modelling suggests that ICUs may collapse under the strain of a dramatic spike in COVID-19 cases if the measures being implemented now — Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s declaration Tuesday of a state of emergency that has forced the shutdown of bars, restaurants, theatres, cinemas, schools and daycares until at least March 31, the sweeping travel restrictions announced by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau Monday, the urging of Ottawa’s medical officer of health to “stay home” — don’t buy the time needed to slow the virus’ spread.
The country isn’t overrun with known infections but no one has a firm grasp on just how much community spread is occurring because we aren’t testing every person in the country with a fever or cough. As the country braces for a potential crush of the virus-infected, hospitals are restricting visitors, ramping down non-urgent procedures and surgeries to free up hospital beds, especially ventilated ones, ordering more ventilators, clearing operating rooms for virus patients and refitting mothballed ICU’s. In Toronto, lung and living kidney donor transplants have been put on hold for 14 days to free up ICU beds.
Even then, “the system is likely to be overwhelmed and that’s why I think we need to get more aggressive with this now while we have time,” Kumar said, adding that the kind of aggressive social distancing measures announced by Ontario and Quebec should be implemented nationwide.
In China and Italy, five per cent or more of those known infected with COVID-19 require intensive care. Among all infected people, the death rate is hovering at around one to three per cent, but among the critically ill, it climbs as high as 62 per cent. Most deaths are due to hypoxia, an insufficient supply of oxygen to the body’s tissues, or multi-organ collapse.
There are currently about 3,200 ICU beds in the country. “So maybe you double that by throwing everything you’ve got at it,” Kumar said. “You increase your bed capacity by an additional 3,000 beds or maybe 4,000 beds.”
In the U.S., 20 per cent of the population was infected with H1N1 in the first year of the outbreak. One-third of the world’s population became infected with the 1918 pandemic virus. If one-quarter of the Canadian population is infected with COVID-19 in the first year, “that’s roughly 10 million people,” he said.
If five per cent require ICU support that could mean 500,000 people requiring intensive care.
Now the chickens may well come home to roost
If mitigation strategies can stretch the outbreak over a substantial period of time — “and I’m talking a year, two years, assuming a vaccine doesn’t become available,” Kumar said — then we might not exceed the threshold of what the system can handle.
More unnerving would be the scenes unfolding in Italy, where hospital staff have been forced to practice “catastrophe medicine,” where even the young and healthy with no underlying medical problems have ended up “vented” — tethered to a mechanical ventilator — or dead, and where Italy’s Association of Anaesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care has published new guidance on which patients should be intubated or considered “deserving of intensive care” should their situation deteriorate and provided the resources are even available, according to an unofficial English translation after the criteria were first published in The Atlantic.
Kumar and other experts worry Canada could be following the same trajectory as Italy, only two or three weeks behind.
In addition to a shortage of ventilators, other choke points in Canada include staffing — will there be enough experienced ICU nurses and respiratory technicians to manage a deluge of patients with viral pneumonia? Will there be a shortage of oxygen tanks? Infected Italians are being sent home from emergency departments with prescriptions for home oxygen, but only two out of every 10 orders for oxygen are being filled. Without oxygen, people inevitably get worse and show up in the ER again struggling to breathe.
After the 2009-2010 H1N1 pandemic, researchers surveyed all acute care hospitals in Canada to assess ICU capacity. They counted 3,170 ICU beds and 4,982 ventilators. There were 10 ICU beds capable of providing mechanical ventilation per 100,000 population, and 15 invasive mechanical ventilators, placing Canada above the U.K. but well below the U.S., Germany and Belgium. There are also huge regional differences. According to the Canadian Institute for Health Information, in 2013-14, Newfoundland and Labrador had 22 ICU beds per 100,000, compared to Alberta’s 10 beds per 100,000.
No matter how the numbers are plugged in, doctors fear it won’t be enough if we don’t substantially squash down the epidemic curve. Overcrowded emergency departments are frankly dysfunctional on a good day, said Dr. Alan Drummond of the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians.
Canada to give income support during coronavirus outbreak
So, did the coronavirus cancel social life?
Coronavirus could infected 35 to 70 percent of Canadians, experts say
“We have told the government for 25 years now, and critically for the last 20 years, that hospital crowding has to be a priority and increasing bed capacity to allow surge capacity, and they have been wilfully blind and studiously ignorant to the issue and now the chickens may well come home to roost,” Drummond said.
“We may dodge a big bullet here. This may be all about not very much, and that would be fantastic. But we may well end up in a situation where we have to make some very tough ethical decisions about who gets the ventilator.”
Different jurisdictions in Europe are trying to come up with rationing criteria. Some take age into account, others underlying medical illnesses. Some simply take the first-come, first-served approach when it comes to a ventilator, Kumar said. “But at this stage, to the best of my knowledge, there is no consensus or even substantial discussion of (ventilator access criteria) in Canada.”
Critical care doctors make those kinds of decisions not infrequently, he said. “Not in the context of, ‘do I put this patient or that patient on the ventilator.’ We’ve never really had to be in that kind of situation,” Kumar said. However in situations that are virtually 100 per cent fatal, “we do make decisions that we shouldn’t offer ventilation.”
We’ve never really had to be in that kind of situation
“But this kind of triage, where you have to pick somebody who might have a better chance of benefitting from the treatment, those aren’t scenarios that anybody has experience with and frankly that anybody wants to have any experience with.”
The ICU admission criteria in Italy would apply to all critically ill people, its creators said, not only those infected with COVID-19. The reason for underlying risk to life wouldn’t matter, whether COVID-19 or a car crash. Everyone would fall into the same basket.
Kumar is hopeful Canada won’t see an overwhelming crush of very sick COVID-19 patients. “But in the case that we do end up with an Italian-type scenario, I think we would be well served to consider these issues in advance and engage members of the public to the extent possible.
“It’s awfully difficult, if it comes to that, for the public to have faith in criteria that are developed if the public has had no input into their development.”
Dr. Andrew Morris agrees that “absolutely now is the time to be having those discussions,” and not waiting until “we have a bunch of exhausted and overworked intensivists.”
“What Italy is forced to do is something they thought was unimaginable in a high-income country,” said Morris, an infectious diseases specialist at Sinai Health System and University Health Network in Toronto.
“I’m hoping we don’t have to, but we should at least be prepared for that and start to ask those very, very difficult questions,” Morris said. Is it right and ethical to offer everything to all is no longer just an academic exercise, he said.
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You are clueless We better flatten the curve or we will have some hard decisionsQuote:
Originally Posted by impact
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Canada is alt almost 600 of confirmed cases . Probably many many more from the way they are testing. [emoji107]boo
Just let it spread when the doctor says you may or may not have you should self quarantine. How many are going to listen when they feel alright after a week.
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70% of all Canadians are living pay cheque to pay cheque. Three or four weeks pay loss will send them over the edge or,at least,guarantee they'll go to work sick. Hopefully,the feds will waive the usual 2 week waiting period and ramps up the payment schedule. Worst case scenario is enactment of The EMA. Sick people who fail to quarantine could be arrested and sent to a secure facility for mandatory treatment.........just like China.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfood
Yeah but how do they prove we are sick. ??Quote:
Originally Posted by trimmer21
In China they are tested and if your out when you have been confirmed to test positive. Then you can be arrested, here how will they know I was sick if I wasn't confirmed. If everyone is not being tested and just sent home how to do they prove we are sick ?. The United states is going to get pounded they are in for their money.
They could be the worst off from any country. But our doors are wide open
This could be a 3 or 4 month issue if its prolonged more. They just sent the doctors home that helped fight the battle for 2 months yesterday. We are in this for awhile where I work is loosing jobs left right and center.
Sucks but hey we are making history. We will all loose a little bit.
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As I said to someone privately yesterday. I fear there is going to be widespread carnage. On the health front and economically. I fear....I have faced a lot of stuff in my life. I’ve never felt the dread that I do now.
I am pissed. At politicians that didn’t learn lessons. At people that didn’t. I have been struggling to “bite my tongue”. I could write 5 pages worth of reasons and not be done. I could start with energy, Alberta. The shape they are in. What this is going to do to them. The 200 billion in lost investment. The transfer payments, spent on.......
I’m beyond thankful we don’t have US style healthcare. Our governments will have to print fake money, to pay for this. there will be prices to be paid for that.There........
read in the news last night the UScis looking at 1 trillion in aid for companies to stay afloat. Boris Johnson approved 500billion yesterday for the same. To help companies.....the peons????
But as in the article above. We have big problems that have been ignored for a decade or more....
If you think your safe, think again. The snowball of job losses, foreclosures. Will affect everyone. I am curious, during such times what happens to real estate values.....even if you keep your jobs, mortgages will be greater than home values....
And on, and on.
I’m curious, if hundreds of thousands end up homeless. Will that help curb the spread?
As of last night, we are 900 cases. It’s doubling almost every 24-48 hours. The same trajectory as Italy.
Sobering read.
https://www.newsandguts.com/dire-rep...-swift-action/
If the UK approving 500 billion to help companies hasn’t convinced you. If the US printing 1 trillion in aid hasn’t convinced you.
If this doesn’t. Nothing will.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/big-six-...rals-1.1407842
http://nationalpost.com/news/who-get...verwhelms-icus
This is true. We are days away from this happening. I know an emergency doctor that told me this two weeks ago. He knew from Italian doctors who knew too late. Be part of the solution. Flatten the curve.
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They had to do it. The suicides alone would outnumber the covid-19 deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBen
Well I'm doing my part. A senior citizen with chronic health issues going into a hospital this morning to repair diagnostic imaging equipment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontariofarmer
I'll see if I can flatten the curve a wee bit.....
JBen, almost everyone has the same concerns as you. Not much we can do but practice the measures that we are told to.
I’m pissed too, but the blame is not only for politicians, it’s on all of us. Western society is fat, rich, entitled and we are going to get a taste of what we have been seeing on the news for decades. Buckle down and take care of our own, and each other as best we can.
Cdn Dollar 69.45 not good
Switched a bunch of Canadian $ to American money, and transference it to my U.S. account a couple of weeks ago.. Every little bit helps. I am supposed to have a hip replaced in May, not looking good for that.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
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Won’t happen. Your bed will be needed elsewhereQuote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
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I suspect ( fear) more will need to be done. As I am want to say "do the math".Quote:
Originally Posted by impact
The middle class and down far, far outnumber the well off. The 20%.
/look around Ontario, especially outside the GTA....
Its possible and I literally just talked about this with owner of a convenience store in small town Ontario. Municipalities may need to do something similar with land taxes. The Feds have already pushed back income taxes to June, trying to buy people time and the ability to weather this. As soon as I brought that up, he said...you know, I've never missed paying my suppliers, never failed to pay a bill, but a couple times I have been late on my land taxes trying to break even.....
Canadian crude select $10.00 a barrel. Damn barrel cost more Alberta is going to hurt
25bil in aid isn’t going to go very far
Coronavirus tax in the future?
Sadly there is far to many self entitled people who still think this a big joke. I have family members who are laughing at this all, making fun of it. I wont feel sorry for them in the future not in the least. They wont be getting any help from me if needed. These very same people will be the type that cause social collapse if it happens, because they refuse to face reality from living high on the hog on easy street far to long, so this type of thing could never happen to them. Some are still down south enjoying the warmth sending selfies holding Corona beers and poking fun at us all.
I think I heard that insurance companies for snow birds are dropping coverage after a certain amount of time if they don't come home.
One fellow my brother works with went to Mexico last week. His wife is in health care and is staying home for 14 days. The guy called his boss to see if he should stay home and the boss said see you Monday! Co-workers are not impressed. Then the boss says at lunch time if he should make the guy eat somewhere else. Too late!
I think I heard that insurance companies for snow birds are dropping coverage after a certain amount of time if they don't come home.
One fellow my brother works with went to Mexico last week. His wife is in health care and is staying home for 14 days. The guy called his boss to see if he should stay home and the boss said see you Monday! Co-workers are not impressed. Then the boss says at lunch time if he should make the guy eat somewhere else. Too late!
So who is giving all this money to the countries that are giving out these packages of relieve
If you purchased the coverage before you left then they will be fine. My question is if the government has issued a return to Canada order then not sure how that will effect coverage. Each policy is different and snow birds should be reading those policies front to back right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by cramadog2
Their own factories that print moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by 3030
You, the taxpayer.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3030
Reality of this outbreak. Considering these are confirmed cases the real numbers are far higher.
https://youtu.be/WPLU9doiojY
The village idiot said today that “ our finances were the envy of the world”.....what colour is the sky in his little world? Even in times of crisis, he nor his minion Blair, can tell the truth !!!
Read the stats. We are in less debt per GDP than almost every industrialized country in the world. So yes most other countries are envious of our financial situation.
Yet our dollar continues to drop and the whole world is flocking to the USA dollar instead of Gold!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishermccann
Statistically.... USA owns 30% of world debt. Japan 19%, China 8%, Italy,France, and UK have 4% each, India 2.5% Canada 2.3, Brazil 2.2. Only Macau, British Virgin Is., Brunei, Liechtenstein and Palau have no world debt.
Just paid cash at the pumps they informed me they may stop taking cash . The cash is a carrier so it might come down to credit or debit,till the power goes out .
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