US v/s Them... (us?)

One more comment.

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Now as far as the US protecting Canada - you got to be honest - there are many countries throughout the world that depend on the US for protection - that's just the way it is

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How long do you think the US would last alone vs the USSR and China?
Then (the cold war) or now. Honesltly Joe if we go back to shortly after the war, had you and Russia slugged it out then and there.
Im thinking they would have handed you your breakfast. Just as they did Napolean and Hitler

And there are many who will argue (perhaps rightly Im not sure) that needed protection you speak of (I agree), well its because you have done much to destabilize (see the mid east) to begin with.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

The egg , why, because reptiles lay eggs, and chickens came from reptiles. Unless you are a creationist.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Now as far as the US protecting Canada - you got to be honest - there are many countries throughout the world that depend on the US for protection - that's just the way it is - and as a result these countries do not need to spend as much money on their own defense - what chance would these countries have against a power like Russia or China - none - when the Russia's start taking Canada's artic land are you going to fight them and defeat them - you know darn well that you'll be looking to your southern neighbor for help -

you can go to bed at night and sleep soundly because you know that the US's nuclear shield is also covering and protecting your part of the world - if the US ceased to exist than you better build your own - then you'll realize how nice it was to depend on the US for that protection - Amen

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Well,I have to hand it to you,Joe,when you're right,you're really right. Despite all the bluster from some folks here,without US military protection,it would take a foreign power less than 24hrs. to take over Canada completely. Our current politcal regime wouldn't know whether their arses were punched or bored and as long as nobody messed with Tim Horton's,The Legion or hockey rinks,nobody would barely notice.

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Originally Posted by 73hunter

Navy supply ships that break down and need to be towed home, 50 year old Sea Kings whose replacement program has been bumbled for 20 years, the national shipbuilding strategy that can't get off the ground...the list goes on, and is a disservice to those who serve us

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Poorly Maintained, and underfunded. Sounds just like Every nation in the world right now, as it was before the First World War, The Second World War.

I had a girlfriend I was living with that fought me tooth and nail everytime I talked about getting a vehicle, said there was no need and it was too expensive to have one. We lived across the parking lot from the grocery store, and she could ride the bus or get a taxi to and from any where we needed to go, and she did not have a license to drive any ways. What does that have to do with supply ships, and sea kings? Well since the government never has to rely on them for anything, they don't see the need. Let one political leader die, or one of his friends or relatives die because a sea king, or some thing broke down, and there will be a new models flying off the show room floor the next day.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

Now as far as the US protecting Canada - you got to be honest - there are many countries throughout the world that depend on the US for protection - that's just the way it is - and as a result these countries do not need to spend as much money on their own defense - what chance would these countries have against a power like Russia or China - none - when the Russia's start taking Canada's artic land are you going to fight them and defeat them - you know darn well that you'll be looking to your southern neighbor for help -

I stand behind everything that I have said - it wasn't intended to annoy anyone - just wanted to state some facts that's all - now I'm done with this post but just want to end with this - you can go to bed at night and sleep soundly because you know that the US's nuclear shield is also covering and protecting your part of the world - if the US ceased to exist than you better build your own - then you'll realize how nice it was to depend on the US for that protection - Amen

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Let's be clear about 2 things:

1) Russia is invading the artic, and the US is doing NOTHING about it. They've attempted to claim the north pole (and all its mineral reserves) several times, even though it sits on the Canadian continental shelf. Canadian planes have had to scramble to respond to Russian surveillance planes approaching Canadian land. US has not helped with this situtation (at least I've not ever heard/read anything).

2) Yes, we rely on the US for general protection, but don't misconstrude, the main purpose is to have a buffer between Russia and mainland USA. The US has to protect us to protect themselves. If the US didn't have a purpose here, they wouldn't be defending us. Don't believe me? How many countries are fiascos and people are dying, yet the US doesn't help them - say for instance Zimbabwe. If the US wasn't here to help, we'd pick up the tab and figure it out ourselves. We wouldn't sit here like cowards waiting for someone to invade. The current situation is what it is, but if the circumstances were different, then Canada would step up and do what it needs to do to protect our freedom.

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Originally Posted by JoePa

So many of you guys are jumping all over the place - I never degraded what Canada, England or any other country did during WWII - all I said was that it was the US's industrial might that turned the tide of the war - why is it so hard to accept that - sure the Canadians, the English, the French and many others fought hard but every history book I ever read gave a lot of credit to the material furnished by the US - you can fight as hard as you can but without the materials of war your chances of winning are pretty low -

Now as far as the US protecting Canada - you got to be honest - there are many countries throughout the world that depend on the US for protection - that's just the way it is - and as a result these countries do not need to spend as much money on their own defense - what chance would these countries have against a power like Russia or China - none - when the Russia's start taking Canada's artic land are you going to fight them and defeat them - you know darn well that you'll be looking to your southern neighbor for help -

I stand behind everything that I have said - it wasn't intended to annoy anyone - just wanted to state some facts that's all - now I'm done with this post but just want to end with this - you can go to bed at night and sleep soundly because you know that the US's nuclear shield is also covering and protecting your part of the world - if the US ceased to exist than you better build your own - then you'll realize how nice it was to depend on the US for that protection - Amen

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Yes you have drank the koo-aid and have read all the propaganda U.S history war material. All country's are guilty of that and don't think the U.S is no different.

Highly unlikely Mark that we would, or even could pick up the tab.
We simply don't have the manpower, gdp, tax base. In just a generation the US has built an entire oil industry in Alaska.

This is bit long, and somewhat convoluted, but in some ways illuminates in part what is or isn't occurring up there.
We don't even want to pay the tab to replace flying dinosaurs (CF-18s) with state of the art, long range air to surface and intercept abilities.

Let alone ice breakers and so very much more

http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo6/...ord-02-eng.asp

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Originally Posted by MarkB

We wouldn't sit here like cowards waiting for someone to invade. The current situation is what it is, but if the circumstances were different, then Canada would step up and do what it needs to do to protect our freedom.

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With the current pacifistic,gutless cowardly regime in Ottawa,there's no way in h**l they'd lift a finger to protect us. The Liberals would want to sit down and "talk to the poor deprived little dears" to see if they could just give them a hug and send them on their way. Our government is more interested in oppressing their own people with silly "gun control" and pie-in-the-sky,politically correct socialism rather than,heaven forbid,grow a pair and defend anything.

[QUOTE=JBen;965692]We don't even want to pay the tab to replace flying dinosaurs (CF-18s) with state of the art, long range air to surface and intercept abilities.
[QUOTE/]

Another problem there is even if the funds are approved the only planes we can buy because of an agreement are American, and they have stopped all design and manufacturing of the F22, and pulled out of the NATO Developed F35 project. The F35 is a lame duck, because an Aircraft that is designed to fly and work in the heat of turkey, will not be well suited for flying and working out of Northern Canadian bases in the -40 to -50° C weather.

[QUOTE=Snowwalker;965695]

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Originally Posted by JBen

We don't even want to pay the tab to replace flying dinosaurs (CF-18s) with state of the art, long range air to surface and intercept abilities.
[QUOTE/]

Another problem there is even if the funds are approved the only planes we can buy because of an agreement are American, and they have stopped all design and manufacturing of the F22, and pulled out of the NATO Developed F35 project. The F35 is a lame duck, because an Aircraft that is designed to fly and work in the heat of turkey, will not be well suited for flying and working out of Northern Canadian bases in the -40 to -50° C weather.

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Maybe,we should order Russian MiGS. That would suit the Liberal crowd quite nicely,then,wouldn't it?